View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
  • No

    85 69.67%
  • Undecided

    6 4.92%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #321
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    By that logic, poor people who require gov. assistance should never have children and all poor people who require gov. assistance and who have children are irresponsible. That doesn't make any sense. Not only does such an argument cement society as a place where only middle and upper class people reproduce; it prevents significant class mobility. Some of the greatest contributors to society were born into poor families who required gov. assistance and I would say the vast majority of people are happy that they were born and wouldn't consider their childhoods "abusive" just because of a lack of money.
    There are poor people who do not collect government services and who do take care of their children.

    You still have yet to come up with a logical explanation of why people should continue to support other people's children instead of preventing them from having ADDITIONAL children when they already have at least one.

    Again, if you don't have the means to support children and keep on having them, that IS a form of abuse. AND it is extremely selfish as well.

  2. #322
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I don't see this situation as being the same thing at all. This isn't dictating how to spend money or military conflicts or anything like that. This is about people who are unable or unwilling to support their own families who keep adding to their family and relying on others to support them for all of their needs. Logistically, this would be a benefit not only to the taxpayer but also to the welfare recipient and to the "potential" child that would be born into a cycle of poverty.

    Your opposition is based upon moral grounds and nothing more.
    Actually "the average family receiving AFDC has 1.9 children -- about the same as the national average."

    From this article titled: Five Media Myths About Welfare
    1. Poor women have more children because of the "financial incentives" of welfare benefits.

    Repeated studies show no correlation between benefit levels and women's choice to have children. (See, for example, Urban Institute Policy and Research Report, Fall/93.) States providing relatively higher benefits do not show higher birth rates among recipients.

    In any case, welfare allowances are far too low to serve as any kind of "incentive": A mother on welfare can expect about $90 in additional AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) benefits if she has another child.

    Furthermore, the real value of AFDC benefits, which do not rise with inflation, has fallen 37 percent during the last two decades (The Nation, 12/12/94). Birth rates among poor women have not dropped correspondingly.

    The average family receiving AFDC has 1.9 children -- about the same as the national average.
    Five Media Myths About Welfare
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  3. #323
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Can you give an example of such a person?
    Thousands upon thousands. Go to a public school, almost any public school, when the children arrive in the morning and take a look. Ask a veteran teacher. It's all around you.

  4. #324
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Actually "the average family receiving AFDC has 1.9 children -- about the same as the national average."

    From this article titled: Five Media Myths About Welfare


    Five Media Myths About Welfare
    I actually agree with a lot of the points made in the article. However, I'm referring to those who do have more than one child and are collecting services.

    Did you read Harry's article about the man who has fathered 9 children and refuses (or cannot) pay support for any of them? That is but ONE example of the kind of irresponsibility I'm referring to.

  5. #325
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    all I asked for in return is her companionship.
    An animal will like whomever feeds it, regardless of treatment. You are "asking" for something that is automatic, as if it is the pet's decision to make - that's fantasy. You're creating a two-way street where none exists, anthropomorphizing.

    You might be the Guardian of the animal, but - more importantly - you are its owner and therefore are responsible for it by law. Your imaginary position as "companion" is counter-productive to personal social development and absolutely secondary to the legal designation of owner.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 02-24-13 at 12:47 PM.

  6. #326
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    I hate when this issue is raised, but what the hell...
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Should people be required to qualify and obtain a license to have children? If so, what should be the standards to qualify and why?

    People need a license to drive, hunt, fish, etc and society is inundated with government regulations as it is, and yet people can breed freely without regard for their ability to provide for their children and regardless of genetic health. Personally, I think it would be disastrous to give the government control over reproduction, especially considering the lousy job it does with everything else. And yet, it is illogical for unhealthy and/or poverty stricken people to breed.
    Not no, but hell no, no way, no how.

    So many valid reasons to object, but the #1 reason is: How would you enforce it? Ban people from having sex without a permit? Phfft, good luck with that.

    What happens when... and many will... have a kid without a permit? Do we take the kid(s) away? Who pays for that? Prison time? Really? Talk about a draconian society. Sorry, no. While there most certainly are parents who shouldn't be, the mere suggestion is counter to everything that our society is supposed to stand for.

    FTR: I don't think government should be in the hunting and fishing license business, either. Driving only to establish competency, then the license is your's to lose.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Yup, I'd require it. Income and intelligence would be 2 immediate factors I'd use as criteria.
    Whose intelligence? Yours? Some government bureaucrats? Would partisan politics and political correctness be the only allowable answers?


    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Some people are serious about it and trying to do something about it. Exhibit A: Sterilize for Cash: Paying Drug Addicts to Not Have Kids - TIME
    I'm ok with paying people for voluntary sterilization. Would cause a serious uproar, of course, as many do-gooders would claim coersion and taking advantage of the poor and less fortunate, but I disagree with those points-of-view.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    They can die in the street, for all I care. I'm sick of being robbed, and I'm tired of subsidizing stupidity.
    That's really what it comes down to, isn't it? Example #1,023,693 that the most ardent libertarians are only jaw-jackin' when they prattle on about freedom and the individual. When push comes to shove they'll throw anybody and everybody else under the bus if anything... especially money... is asked and/or required of them.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  7. #327
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yep, it's an unfortunate turn of events that being a parent, like just providing the basics, is no longer a requirement.
    This is precisely my point. Standards have become non existent. So the question is: should there be standards? And if so, how would those standards be enforced? The problem is, anyone can spread their legs since that is the only requirement for pregnancy, and if one cannot provide for their children, survival and even luxuries are provided.

    Personally, I voted no on the poll because I do not believe in government interference, but not because I oppose the idea in principle. However, I do think that mandatory sterilization should be required for people receiving welfare. If they want the check, it needs to be a requirement.

    Also, people with certain genetic diseases shouldn't breed. Huntington's, cystic fibrosis- absolutely not. Those people are selfish for even considering it. Why condemn a child to that life?

  8. #328
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I actually agree with a lot of the points made in the article. However, I'm referring to those who do have more than one child and are collecting services.

    Did you read Harry's article about the man who has fathered 9 children and refuses (or cannot) pay support for any of them? That is but ONE example of the kind of irresponsibility I'm referring to.
    I read that article. THe man had 9 children with 6 different woman.
    The families collecting benefits have an average of 1.9 children.
    So it seems to me offering BC to welfare moms seems to working for the most part.
    Maybe is time to Find a type of long acting BC option that is implanted and removable by a doctor that we offer fathers of the children who recieve benefits.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  9. #329
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I hate when this issue is raised, but what the hell...

    Not no, but hell no, no way, no how.

    So many valid reasons to object, but the #1 reason is: How would you enforce it? Ban people from having sex without a permit? Phfft, good luck with that.

    What happens when... and many will... have a kid without a permit? Do we take the kid(s) away? Who pays for that? Prison time? Really? Talk about a draconian society. Sorry, no. While there most certainly are parents who shouldn't be, the mere suggestion is counter to everything that our society is supposed to stand for.

    FTR: I don't think government should be in the hunting and fishing license business, either. Driving only to establish competency, then the license is your's to lose.



    Whose intelligence? Yours? Some government bureaucrats? Would partisan politics and political correctness be the only allowable answers?



    I'm ok with paying people for voluntary sterilization. Would cause a serious uproar, of course, as many do-gooders would claim coersion and taking advantage of the poor and less fortunate, but I disagree with those points-of-view.



    That's really what it comes down to, isn't it? Example #1,023,693 that the most ardent libertarians are only jaw-jackin' when they prattle on about freedom and the individual. When push comes to shove they'll throw anybody and everybody else under the bus if anything... especially money... is asked and/or required of them.
    Sounds like someone thinks freedom = security.

    I have no use for you.

  10. #330
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    We would actually do better to re-introduce the stigma of shame.

    It wasn't all that long ago that an unwed pregnant teenager essentially hid in shame and downplayed the whole thing. This shame, IMO, kept many other girls of the same age group thinking about the ramifications and led them to think ahead and make better choices.

    Today, unwed pregnancy and inability to support the coming child(ren) is literally celebrated.

    That's where we as a society fell off the boat.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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