View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
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    85 69.67%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #311
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    When it is even contemplated that the state might need to force parents to assume parental responsibility or surrender the right, we're in deep trouble.


    You think they don't? There are countless cases of the government taking children away from parents who neglect and/or abuse them. They only get the kids back by straightening themselves out.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    In a way, many parents have already done this, even middle and upper income people.
    By using the public school system.
    Yeah. When the state started providing lunch andbreakfast at school, I quit teaching. That was a long time ago. I knew back then that the state was enabling parents to shuck their responsibilities, and believe me, it showed with the children.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I'd make it an interest free loan, with repayments based on the parents income at that time, which can be adjust based on job loss.
    No more than 5% of net income.
    That sounds better a lot of ideas I've heard and it's something to consider. What would happen, though, for parents who can't ever work because of genuine disability?

    If the parent is using state money, they really aren't providing for their kid.
    Their having the state provide for their kid.
    That depends on the parent. Some parents work and get state money, using both sets of funds to provide for the kid. In any case, my point was that if the child's needs are being met, there isn't any child abuse. If a rich uncle provides money to non-working parents, is that child abuse as well since it's the uncle, not the parents, who are providing for the kid.

    I'm pretty serious about raising children in the best manner possible.
    Doing this poorly has long term social costs, to everyone.
    I think we've focused too much on reproductive rights and not enough of duties, after you've reproduced.
    I think people just have different ways of solving the problem of children being raised in undesirable environments. You advocate focusing on getting parents to live up to perceived "duties" while others (including me) focus more on how how the government offset the problems kids bring from home through school programs and the like. I do, however, think that there isn't enough focus on mental health, addiction and other programs for parents in at risk neighborhoods.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    You think they don't? There are countless cases of the government taking children away from parents who neglect and/or abuse them. They only get the kids back by straightening themselves out.
    I didn't say they don't. That the government does such things is after the causal fact, and while that will always be the case to some extent, we've never before seen it in such numbers outside of war zones or natural disasters. What we have now is the product of what is considered a normally functioning society.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Yeah. When the state started providing lunch andbreakfast at school, I quit teaching. That was a long time ago. I knew back then that the state was enabling parents to shuck their responsibilities, and believe me, it showed with the children.
    Yep, it's an unfortunate turn of events that being a parent, like just providing the basics, is no longer a requirement.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    I didn't say they don't. That the government does such things is after the causal fact, and while that will always be the case to some extent, we've never before seen it in such numbers outside of war zones or natural disasters. What we have now is the product of what is considered a normally functioning society.
    My point in the earlier post was that it doesn't have to be after the fact. Medical people are under a duty to report abuse and neglect. They don't have to wait until after the fact. The OBGYN can involve DCS in the pregnancy if he just will. A crack addicted pregnant woman is ALREADY abusing the child/fetus. You don't have to send the baby home with her. You just don't. I've gotten children's services involved in more than one pregnancy.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    That sounds better a lot of ideas I've heard and it's something to consider. What would happen, though, for parents who can't ever work because of genuine disability?
    Disabilities tend to be faults of nature or accidents.
    I can't, in good conscience, hold someone accountable for things they didn't likely cause.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    That depends on the parent. Some parents work and get state money, using both sets of funds to provide for the kid. In any case, my point was that if the child's needs are being met, there isn't any child abuse. If a rich uncle provides money to non-working parents, is that child abuse as well since it's the uncle, not the parents, who are providing for the kid.
    Actually that too can be potentially viewed as such, depends on the circumstances.
    Although when I say "child abuse" I don't necessarily mean they should be prosecuted, although I think it should be shamed.

    2 of my inlaws were raised by a mother, that saw men as sources of money and material possession.
    She would essentially scam them in order to survive and get stuff.

    One of them eventually grew up and developed relationships like that with men and was murdered.
    I don't blame the mother for the murder, but I hold her responsible for raising such a morally bankrupt child.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I think people just have different ways of solving the problem of children being raised in undesirable environments. You advocate focusing on getting parents to live up to perceived "duties" while others (including me) focus more on how how the government offset the problems kids bring from home through school programs and the like. I do, however, think that there isn't enough focus on mental health, addiction and other programs for parents in at risk neighborhoods.
    I would be fine with a two prong approach.
    It's just not fair to kids to be brought up by people who don't put their best interests first.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    My point in the earlier post was that it doesn't have to be after the fact. Medical people are under a duty to report abuse and neglect. They don't have to wait until after the fact. The OBGYN can involve DCS in the pregnancy if he just will. A crack addicted pregnant woman is ALREADY abusing the child/fetus. You don't have to send the baby home with her. You just don't. I've gotten children's services involved in more than one pregnancy.
    That's your job, and I have no doubt you do the responsible thing. I'm not specifically addressing the psychologically distressed or the addicted or the intelligence challenged. I have no doubt we have plenty of that to deal with. I'm talking about the rest who don't have such problems, and it's not the exclusive domain of the poor. As a society, we do not engender the notion that parental responsibility is primary. That is the causal fact that precedes all the rest.

  9. #319
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    People need a license to drive, hunt, fish, etc and society is inundated with government regulations as it is, and yet people can breed freely without regard for their ability to provide for their children and regardless of genetic health.
    Also, people are allowed now to live on, and on, and on - without any regard for their ability to provide for even themsleves. All those "superannuated" folks everywhere, what do they contribute, most of them? Many people are not prepared for being parents; but even fewer are actually prepared - financially, educationally or mentally - for being very old.

    Perhaps, there needs to be a license to live. Starting at the age of 50, it would be renewed once in 5 years by your friendly local Committee for Responsibility and Productivity (CRAP). It will evaluate your physical and mental fitness for going on, based on absolutely objective, scientific methods, and if the license cannot be extended, it will provide for humane and caring expiration-time assistance.
    The CRAP will self-finance by selling exit visas out of the country to citizens who do not pass the test but still insist on continuation of their selfish existence.
    There is a perfect bureaucratic solution for everything, if you try hard enough.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    That's your job, and I have no doubt you do the responsible thing. I'm not specifically addressing the psychologically distressed or the addicted or the intelligence challenged. I have no doubt we have plenty of that to deal with. I'm talking about the rest who don't have such problems, and it's not the exclusive domain of the poor. As a society, we do not engender the notion that parental responsibility is primary. That is the causal fact that precedes all the rest.
    Can you give an example of such a person?
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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