View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
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    85 69.67%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #301
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Hmmm. Something important to remember too is that some people who collect services are not actually single. They are gaming the system. I've seen it multiple times where a woman actually does have a man residing with her but lies about it in order to continue to collect services. I believe that another poster brought this point up earlier in the thread. So I don't know how reliable these "single-parenting" issues are, and on top of that are multiple other contributing factors IMO.
    I definitely know about this as well.
    Repayments, hopefully create an incentive for the mother to name the father.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    When it is even contemplated that the state might need to force parents to assume parental responsibility or surrender the right, we're in deep trouble.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I think forced sterilization is bad, but I also think that subsidizing poor choices and planning is bad, as well.
    I think there should be a set of consequences for relying on state aid and having more than 1 child, that you require state aid to support.
    Okay, while I don't necessarily support such policies, I can see the rational basis for them depending on how their implemented.

    To me, needing state aid to support a child, is child abuse.
    If a parent is able to provide for their child's needs whether through personal or state money, then I don't think that's child abuse. In fact, I think defining child abuse as you have is dilutes the harm of child abuse. In other words, that's hyperbolic.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    When it is even contemplated that the state might need to force parents to assume parental responsibility or surrender the right, we're in deep trouble.
    They already do.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Okay, while I don't necessarily support such policies, I can see the rational basis for them depending on how their implemented.


    If a parent is able to provide for their child's needs whether through personal or state money, then I don't think that's child abuse. In fact, I think defining child abuse as you have is dilutes the harm of child abuse. In other words, that's hyperbolic.
    I disagree. I think that if you continually and willingly bring children into a world where they are most assured of a life of poverty unless they get some kind of governmental assistance is a type of abuse and also shows that this particular person is irresponsible. That could be a measure of what kind of parent they might be.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Okay, while I don't necessarily support such policies, I can see the rational basis for them depending on how their implemented.
    I'd make it an interest free loan, with repayments based on the parents income at that time, which can be adjust based on job loss.
    No more than 5% of net income.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    If a parent is able to provide for their child's needs whether through personal or state money, then I don't think that's child abuse. In fact, I think defining child abuse as you have is dilutes the harm of child abuse. In other words, that's hyperbolic.
    If the parent is using state money, they really aren't providing for their kid.
    They're having the state provide for their kid.

    I'm pretty serious about raising children in the best manner possible.
    Doing this poorly has long term social costs, to everyone.
    I think we've focused too much on reproductive rights and not enough of duties, after you've reproduced.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 02-24-13 at 10:47 AM.
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  7. #307
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    When it is even contemplated that the state might need to force parents to assume parental responsibility or surrender the right, we're in deep trouble.
    In a way, many parents have already done this, even middle and upper income people.
    By using the public school system.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I disagree. I think that if you continually and willingly bring children into a world where they are most assured of a life of poverty unless they get some kind of governmental assistance is a type of abuse and also shows that this particular person is irresponsible. That could be a measure of what kind of parent they might be.
    By that logic, poor people who require gov. assistance should never have children and all poor people who require gov. assistance and who have children are irresponsible. That doesn't make any sense. Not only does such an argument cement society as a place where only middle and upper class people reproduce; it prevents significant class mobility. Some of the greatest contributors to society were born into poor families who required gov. assistance and I would say the vast majority of people are happy that they were born and wouldn't consider their childhoods "abusive" just because of a lack of money.

  9. #309
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I disagree. I think that if you continually and willingly bring children into a world where they are most assured of a life of poverty unless they get some kind of governmental assistance is a type of abuse and also shows that this particular person is irresponsible. That could be a measure of what kind of parent they might be.
    I agree. I had a patient, a schizophrenic, who brought her boyfriend to her appointment, sat down, folded her hands, and announced, 'we have decided to have a baby.' I just looked at her and told her, 'go ahead and have it, DCS will be there to catch it and you will never take it home. You can't live yourself without a case manager, and you sure can't raise a child.' She already had 5 children in state custody. I got to checking around and found that after the last one the doctor had sterilized her. She had a guardian at that juncture who consented and the patient didn't even know it. Why doctors and NPs think they have to let babies go home with severely impaired patients is beyond me. They just don't. They just have to have the balls to do something.
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    They already do.
    Right...So we're in deep trouble, and have been for decades developing a support system that mitigates the symptoms while ignoring the cause. I wish I hadn't gone here with this, but I don't know how to avoid it. I'm certain this has been addressed profusely earlier here. I haven't read all the comments, so I'll probably just shut up and go back and read.

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