View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
  • No

    85 69.67%
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    6 4.92%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #241
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Absolutely not. Governments which take upon themselves the right to decide who should or should not reproduce rightly deserve their bloody and abusive reputations. Furthermore, the last thing we need is something else restricting our fertility rate - we are in trouble enough as it is.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]


    Originally Posted by ChrisL
    The problem is that, yes, sterilization can be reversed, but not always. Also, why would you want to sterilize everyone because of some people's irresponsible behaviors? Sounds a little bit extreme IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I know it does, but I've seen the extreme realities (not hypotheticals) that already exist everywhere out there. My line of work has exposed me to countless profoundly damaged people whose lives were utterly ruined by their monstrous parents.

    It's not that I don't respect people's rights or that I want a big intrusive government. It's that I've just seen too many children whose basic human rights were trampled on by parents who never deserved to be parents, and the damage was permanent. Seeing such permanent damage tends to deaden one's belief in unconditional reproductive rights.
    I also have seen the realities of child abuse and am very concerned for those children . I think making birth control availble to anyone with no co pay is a step in the right direction.

    Delaying parenthood until one wants to become a parent would cut down the number of "welfare" moms as well as the number of abortions that are occuring at the present time.

    In the following study the poor used free contraceptives and unwanted pregnancies dropped dramatically.

    <SNIP>

    The project tracked more than 9,000 women in St. Louis, many of them poor or uninsured.
    They were given their choice of a range of contraceptive methods at no cost — from birth control pills to goof-proof options like the IUD or a matchstick-sized implant.

    When price wasn't an issue, women flocked to the most effective contraceptives — the implanted options, which typically cost hundreds of dollars up-front to insert.
    These women experienced far fewer unintended pregnancies as a result,


    reported Dr. Jeffrey Peipert of Washington University in St. Louis in a study published Thursday.


    The effect on teen pregnancy was striking:

    There were 6.3 births per 1,000 teenagers in the study. Compare that to a national rate of 34 births per 1,000 teens in 2010.


    There also were substantially lower rates of abortion, when compared with women in the metro area and nationally:
    4.4 to 7.5 abortions per 1,000 women in the study, compared with 13.4 to 17 abortions per 1,000 women overall in the St. Louis region,
    Peipert calculated. That's lower than the national rate, too, which is almost 20 abortions per 1,000 women.
    Read more:

    Study: Free birth control leads to way fewer abortions - CBS News
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  3. #243
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    I would still be willing to consider a program that sterilizes those people who are collecting off the system who have more than one child and who have a history with the welfare department.

    To play devil's advocate, I also wanted to bring another aspect into the discussion. People seem to be focusing on only sterilizing females. If you really think about it, it might be more successful to sterilize the men. It's a much less complicated procedure for men than women and I believe it is more effective too (I would have to check on this though).

  4. #244
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Certainly interesting how most advocates of such a proposition center their arguments strictly on the income of the parents. The concern for the child's well being seems completely disingenuous.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Certainly interesting how most advocates of such a proposition center their arguments strictly on the income of the parents. The concern for the child's well being seems completely disingenuous.
    Well, how do you feel about those who are receiving social services, who keep having children that other people end up having to support? What would be bad about perhaps mandatory birth control or sterilization for those people? And only a temporary basis until they are no longer receiving those services and are able to care for themselves and a family?

  6. #246
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well, how do you feel about those who are receiving social services, who keep having children that other people end up having to support?

    What would be bad about perhaps mandatory birth control or sterilization for those people?

    And only a temporary basis until they are no longer receiving those services and are able to care for themselves and a family?
    I don't advocate for irresponsibility, but in the end I have no say-so in the matter.

    Forced sterilization and other intrusive actions based on income only is simply a repulsive proposition in my eyes. There's quite a few wealthy couples out there who I feel would make lackluster parents as well, but as stated before, this proposition is largely based only on the perceived effects on one's pocketbook, not out of concern for the child's health or upbringing.

    Sterilization isn't temporary. Also, restricting the reproductive rights of the poor sets a poor precedent in terms of social policy (Think "Class Warfare") and economic effects.

  7. #247
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Before there is brain activity (10 weeks) - there is no baby...there is a fetus.

    And I am not going to debate this.

    You cannot have sentience without brain activity...not possible.


    After there is brain activity - then it's a crime (imo).
    Still think it's a really bad idea. And I am not debating abortion, I am talking about single moms in the place of baby's figuratively hence the common phrase.
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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #248
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    I don't advocate for irresponsibility, but in the end I have no say-so in the matter.

    Forced sterilization and other intrusive actions based on income only is simply a repulsive proposition in my eyes. There's quite a few wealthy couples out there who I feel would make lackluster parents as well, but as stated before, this proposition is largely based only on the perceived effects on one's pocketbook, not out of concern for the child's health or upbringing.

    Sterilization isn't temporary. Also, restricting the reproductive rights of the poor sets a poor precedent in terms of social policy (Think "Class Warfare") and economic effects.
    Oh, but you're wrong. There are MANY sterilization procedures out there that are reversible. Of course it's not a 100% guarantee and is MUCH more successful in men, but I have typed reports about tubal ligation reversals in females many times.

    I agree that poor/rich/middle class does not determine what kind of parent one will be. I would like to hear a valid reason though, as to why we shouldn't demand birth control or some sterilization procedure on those who continually have children and collect welfare to support those children.

  9. #249
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    From a logical point. Most of the mass murderers are from a well-to-do white demographic. So wealthy whites should not reproduce? Sounds sensible, eh?

  10. #250
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Oh, but you're wrong. There are MANY sterilization procedures out there that are reversible. Of course it's not a 100% guarantee and is MUCH more successful in men, but I have typed reports about tubal ligation reversals in females many times.

    I agree that poor/rich/middle class does not determine what kind of parent one will be. I would like to hear a valid reason though, as to why we shouldn't demand birth control or some sterilization procedure on those who continually have children and collect welfare to support those children.
    Perhaps I am. I haven't done much research on the subject of sterilization thankfully.

    Simply put, it's not your decision to make. Entities and individuals that receive tax dollars aren't subject to the will and dictate of John Q. Taxpayer by default you know.

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