View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
  • No

    85 69.67%
  • Undecided

    6 4.92%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #211
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I am going to take it personally. We are talking about my family, my friends, my colleagues, and my community. I also see your second paragraph as a direct attack on my family. I will have guardianship over him, and will be almost situated as a legal parent to him. I do not take that responsibility lightly in the slightest. He has one life, and by virtue of his disability, I have immense power to influence the rest of his existence. I will not disrespect human life to such an extent so as to allow him to be less of a citizen than he already is, out of some prejudicial belief. All my brother wanted was to work, be a citizen, and live a fulfilling life. He would be granted voting rights, marriage rights, and parental rights regardless of what you think is appropriate.

    Frankly, sir, you just attacked my family with the remarks you gave. I am utterly astonished, sickened, and angered. If you ever said that to my face, there would have been immediate consequences, and I don't give a damn if anyone here thinks I would be unjustified in stating as such to you directly.
    This doesn't offend me, I just think you're becoming overly worked up over this.

  2. #212
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Well said Auntie. Especially the last sentence. It has been stunning to see that position come to the fore in this thread. Tax money over our reproductive rights. Wow.
    Children's rights over reproductive rights.

  3. #213
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    This doesn't offend me, I just think you're becoming overly worked up over this.
    No, I am not. You are talking about violating basic human rights by forcibly preventing him from having children. I will take it very personally.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  4. #214
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Children's rights over reproductive rights.
    Which rights?

  5. #215
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Which rights?
    Which rights of children? Their rights to not be neglected or abused.

    I realize there is a bit of a "pre-crime" element to this, but I think we should consider the less destructive route here, and all along I have admitted the controversial aspects of this approach. Nonetheless, there are people in our society whose unfitness for parenthood is permanent and incontrovertible. Are you denying this?

  6. #216
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Ok, so we're supposed to call ourselves guardians and not owners of such? Isn't this just a little PC and anti-private property? I am not the owner of my pet/company/land but The Guardian. I dunno, seems grandiose. I find it a bit self-serving, as if to distance oneself from any sense of 'enslavement'. Grandiose and self-serving terminology for the purpose of PC and crapping on private property? Nah, I'll pass on that.
    I don't see why. I fill the role of guardian. I get her medical care and survival needs and emotional needs tended to. I also represent her best interests in a human-dominated environment in which she can't communicate in the language of those who are around her. What is grandiose about being in service to another creature?

    Being her guardian doesn't make me above her. Rather the reverse, actually. I accepted a series of responsibilities by taking her into my home, and all I asked for in return is her companionship.

  7. #217
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    How can you punish motivations and sub-par parenting?

    Eve though I may agree with you... this kind of thinking leads to some scary things, which makes me wonder if It is correct after all. It leads to situations like Brave New World... where the only justified means of actually solving the parenting problem is have all children being raised by government institutions. Our current laws suggests a parents does have ownership over their child so it prevents this from happening, but what if they didn't?
    What are you talking about?

    I never advocated thought crimes. But someone who just sees their child as a possession is likely to treat them like one, and that treatment is often criminal.

  8. #218
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    why not have a license to exist, that kind of Virgo all the other ones wouldn't it?

    the license to exist would be a privilege that could be revoked at any moment once deemed no longer eligible.

  9. #219
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    What about someone with chronic paranoid schizophrenia and alcohol dependence?

    What about a woman with Bipolar Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder who has already had three children for which she cannot effectively care (and they've been removed by the state and placed elsewhere)?

    Mental illness, addiction, personality disorders, poverty... all of these things put children through hell. Why is the right to keep reproducing so sacrosanct?
    No. Because the results are always terrible. Every society that has ever tried this has wound up with MORE child abuse than what it started with, MORE poverty, MORE abused and damaged women.

    I just can't support human rights violation as a policy.

  10. #220
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    No. Because the results are always terrible. Every society that has ever tried this has wound up with MORE child abuse than what it started with, MORE poverty, MORE abused and damaged women.
    I won't seek to defend whatever societies you're referring to, but can you explain why reproductive control would invariably lead to more child abuse, domestic violence and poverty? I'm not sure I understand the connection you're suggesting.

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