View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
  • No

    85 69.67%
  • Undecided

    6 4.92%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #201
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    So do I.



    So do I, probably.



    So do I.



    You might be taking the question a bit personally then. Kids damaged prenatally by substance abuse, or by abuse and neglect after they were born, tend to be somewhat unwanted, by their own parents or anyone else in society. As a result, they often grow up with significant cognitive/emotional/behavioral abnormalities that they then carry forward themselves. It's one thing to "have issues," because everyone does, but it's another to be an utter train wreck and then have children that you turn into train wrecks. That's pretty much a social contagion. Call me evil all you want... the people who actually do evil things tend to be quite damaged, often (though not always) by their own damaged parents.
    So to recap. You, presumably, with impairments or family with impairments, would support violations of basic human rights, and tell me I am taking it too personally when our people are going to be targeted by the professional class like they were for generations?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    I corrected that to also, advocating for eugenics. I said that incompletely. My apologies.

    They don't go together, but it has been mentioned that some people shouldn't be allowed to have kids because of the problems they will pass on. That is abhorrent to me. We've been down that path in the 20th century. We should not ever go down it again.

    As for exchanging sterility for benefits, no. Can't go there either. There are plenty of people who take benefits because they lost a job or had a financial or health calamity, for instance. I don't agree to it no matter the circumstance, but maybe that is one some haven't considered.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Sterilization for benefits does not equate to Eugenics. I can't even tie those together. This leaves sterilization optional and benefits optional. It's a voluntary trade.
    Uh huh. So, my brother, who is a great human being, by virtue of getting SSI and whatnot, should be sterilized.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  4. #204
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    That's all well and good, but did you know that some people (not many, but a very mentally ill few) don't know even know they're going to be parents until they are parents? That's for real. Some people are so sick they don't even realize they're pregnant. Should we be guarding their reproductive rights as sacrosanct?

    Could we at least all agree that people adjudicated disabled be sterilized? If not, I would say our emotions are overtaking the rational parts of our brains.

    In fact I think emotions overtake our brains somewhere in this process of becoming parents no matter what. I can't tell you how many people I know who just went and got pregnant because they felt compelled. Not because it made particular sense. And those are people who happen to be relatively good parents.

    I think we need to be willing to let just a LITTLE bit of logic and reasoning enter into the decision to reproduce.
    After saying all that you claim to want just a LITTLE bit of logic and reasoning to enter into the discussion of reproduction.

    Meaning - you just want someone to side with you on forcing sterilizations and abortions because you don't like the idea of ever having to care for another person's child (never mind that you'll never be the one to DO it).

    If it comes down to having to determine if someones' fit for pregnancy or parenting I certainly wouldn't want anyone with your selfish views to be calling those shots - if anything ever possibly encroaches on anything at all - you'll just oppose it because you're (what - rights? peace of mind? freedom?) is sacrosanct?

    So - your tax money is sacrosanct and other people's right to reproduce is not . . . got it and filed it away under 'hypocrisy' for future reference.
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Sounds like a bad idea.

    I don't care for the idea of giving the government the right to tell who can or cannot have a child. I can see some of the reasoning for it, but I like to stay away from something that could be so easily abused given the right circumstances. Also, enforcing that seems like nothing short of a massive job; I doubt it could be properly enforced.
    "We have more responsibility than power, I think. The newspaper can create great controversies, stir up arguments within the community or discussion, can throw light on injustices....just as it can do the opposite. It can hide things and be a great power for evil." -- Rupert Murdoch, 1968

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I would be completely fine if people stayed "on the dole" when the dole is completely charity-based. People that wanted to help the less fortunate who breed other less fortunate babies who breed other less fortunate babies...can do so under their own volition. I myself would have no part of it.
    I work as a critical care paramedic and see death every day. Rich or poor is irrelevant to me. I see all life as precious, none of us know how long we will be here for.

    Being the richest girl in the cemetery doesn't matter to me Gipper.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    So to recap. You, presumably, with impairments or family with impairments, would support violations of basic human rights, and tell me I am taking it too personally when our people are going to be targeted by the professional class like they were for generations?
    I think your previous response suggested you might be taking the discussion personally. I don't consider dysfunctional people "our" people. I have dysfunctional relatives. Some relatives so dysfunctional that they should not (and cannot) shoulder responsibility for raising a child. My loving regard for them as family members cannot possibly change that fact. They should not raise children. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh huh. So, my brother, who is a great human being, by virtue of getting SSI and whatnot, should be sterilized.
    I don't know. We're just talking about prevention. Without knowing (or needing to know) the specifics about your brother, would sterilization mean he is a "bad" human being? I don't think it would mean that. It would imply he is thought unable to raise a child, but that wouldn't make him a lesser human being. It just means he's not going to be raising children. Do you honestly think he is suited to raise children? If so, maybe he wouldn't be sterilized by any sterilization policy... Does a visually impaired person who is denied a driver's license become a bad person or lesser human being simply because he cannot be trusted to drive a vehicle? Of course not.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    After saying all that you claim to want just a LITTLE bit of logic and reasoning to enter into the discussion of reproduction.

    Meaning - you just want someone to side with you on forcing sterilizations and abortions because you don't like the idea of ever having to care for another person's child (never mind that you'll never be the one to DO it).
    For one thing, where did I advocate forced abortions? For another, whether I personally raise some other unfit parents' child or not does not change the fact that a societally-funded organization is charged with arranging the care of that child. And if I can venture a generalization, those children do not tend to have happy childhoods or happy and fulfilled adult lives, on average, at least relative to those who get their needs met as children.

    If it comes down to having to determine if someones' fit for pregnancy or parenting I certainly wouldn't want anyone with your selfish views to be calling those shots
    Does this mean you think there might be some value to having a process for determining parental fitness, but you just don't want ME to have that job? I'd take that as progress...

    So - your tax money is sacrosanct and other people's right to reproduce is not . . . got it and filed it away under 'hypocrisy' for future reference.
    What I'm observing is that reproductive rights are sacrosanct, and we just fund cleanup efforts after the damage is already done (to children) by those whose parental failures we could have easily foreseen.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I think your previous response suggested you might be taking the discussion personally. I don't consider dysfunctional people "our" people. I have dysfunctional relatives. Some relatives so dysfunctional that they should not (and cannot) shoulder responsibility for raising a child. My loving regard for them as family members cannot possibly change that fact. They should not raise children. Period.



    I don't know. We're just talking about prevention. Without knowing (or needing to know) the specifics about your brother, would sterilization mean he is a "bad" human being? I don't think it would mean that. It would imply he is thought unable to raise a child, but that wouldn't make him a lesser human being. It just means he's not going to be raising children. Do you honestly think he is suited to raise children? If so, maybe he wouldn't be sterilized by any sterilization policy... Does a visually impaired person who is denied a driver's license become a bad person or lesser human being simply because he cannot be trusted to drive a vehicle? Of course not.
    I am going to take it personally. We are talking about my family, my friends, my colleagues, and my community. I also see your second paragraph as a direct attack on my family. I will have guardianship over him, and will be almost situated as a legal parent to him. I do not take that responsibility lightly in the slightest. He has one life, and by virtue of his disability, I have immense power to influence the rest of his existence. I will not disrespect human life to such an extent so as to allow him to be less of a citizen than he already is, out of some prejudicial belief. All my brother wanted was to work, be a citizen, and live a fulfilling life. He would be granted voting rights, marriage rights, and parental rights regardless of what you think is appropriate.

    Frankly, sir, you just attacked my family with the remarks you gave. I am utterly astonished, sickened, and angered. If you ever said that to my face, there would have been immediate consequences, and I don't give a damn if anyone here thinks I would be unjustified in stating as such to you directly.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    After saying all that you claim to want just a LITTLE bit of logic and reasoning to enter into the discussion of reproduction.

    Meaning - you just want someone to side with you on forcing sterilizations and abortions because you don't like the idea of ever having to care for another person's child (never mind that you'll never be the one to DO it).

    If it comes down to having to determine if someones' fit for pregnancy or parenting I certainly wouldn't want anyone with your selfish views to be calling those shots - if anything ever possibly encroaches on anything at all - you'll just oppose it because you're (what - rights? peace of mind? freedom?) is sacrosanct?

    So - your tax money is sacrosanct and other people's right to reproduce is not . . . got it and filed it away under 'hypocrisy' for future reference.
    Well said Auntie. Especially the last sentence. It has been stunning to see that position come to the fore in this thread. Tax money over our reproductive rights. Wow.

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