View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
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    85 69.67%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #191
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Well think about this: Would you rather approve of the sterilization of a person with serious impairments, or take care of his/her child after several years of abuse and/or neglect?

    I realize that on a personal level this is a false dichotomy but on a societal level it is not.
    I know people (including family) with serious impairments, and I have some myself, and know the history of eugenics. My answer is unequivocally, I would be against sterilization, period. My family fought against professionals overextending themselves to do what they thought was best for our family by breaking us up. So no, I do not have any sympathy with your work.

    I will not refrain from calling what you are asking as something that is pure evil. I mean that with all of my heart and soul.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  2. #192
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    And the children involved, what will happen to them then? The "unlicenced" children should not be forced to suffer.


    Let's grow some consciences here, please.
    So where does it end? Every bastard created out there gets a full ride on my coattails?

    I'll pass. There has to be some eggs broken to make this omelet. Once people realize that stupidity of this level essentially earns a death warrant if you don't have family that will let you leech, either they'll adjust their attitudes or they'll be made examples of in the effort that the next crop of idiots learn the lesson.

  3. #193
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I know people (including family) with serious impairments,
    So do I.

    and I have some myself,
    So do I, probably.

    and know the history of eugenics.
    So do I.

    My answer is unequivocally, I would be against sterilization, period. My family fought against professionals overextending themselves to do what they thought was best for our family by breaking us up. So no, I do not have any sympathy with your work.

    I will not refrain from calling what you are asking as something that is pure evil. I mean that with all of my heart and soul.
    You might be taking the question a bit personally then. Kids damaged prenatally by substance abuse, or by abuse and neglect after they were born, tend to be somewhat unwanted, by their own parents or anyone else in society. As a result, they often grow up with significant cognitive/emotional/behavioral abnormalities that they then carry forward themselves. It's one thing to "have issues," because everyone does, but it's another to be an utter train wreck and then have children that you turn into train wrecks. That's pretty much a social contagion. Call me evil all you want... the people who actually do evil things tend to be quite damaged, often (though not always) by their own damaged parents.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 02-24-13 at 01:41 AM.

  4. #194
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Should we have to take care of the idiots' children for them, or should we leave the children to suffer their idiot parents?
    You know something crazy - a lot of people have no clue if they're going to be a decent parent or not until they ARE a parent.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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  5. #195
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    You know something crazy - a lot of people have no clue if they're going to be a decent parent or not until they ARE a parent.
    That's all well and good, but did you know that some people (not many, but a very mentally ill few) don't know even know they're going to be parents until they are parents? That's for real. Some people are so sick they don't even realize they're pregnant. Should we be guarding their reproductive rights as sacrosanct?

    Could we at least all agree that people adjudicated disabled be sterilized? If not, I would say our emotions are overtaking the rational parts of our brains.

    In fact I think emotions overtake our brains somewhere in this process of becoming parents no matter what. I can't tell you how many people I know who just went and got pregnant because they felt compelled. Not because it made particular sense. And those are people who happen to be relatively good parents.

    I think we need to be willing to let just a LITTLE bit of logic and reasoning enter into the decision to reproduce.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 02-24-13 at 01:53 AM.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    So let me recap a bit here.

    1. Everyone, before getting pregnant has to get a license. The procedure and qualifications for which have not been discussed in much detail, as far as I can see. IMO, this would have to cover everyone. Regardless of socio-economic status or it's discriminatory. Everyone should have to go through the steps to qualify. So before say a Donald Trump or a senator/congressman, hedge fund trader or doctor could procreate, they too would have to qualify and get a license.

    2. The people who get pregnant without a license who have kids? What's the penalty? No benefits. So what happens to kids who were not licensed? They starve, go homeless and now we have a greater problem than before.

    3. Sterilization has been brought up. In exchange for benefits. There have also been posts advocating for eugenics.

    4. A DNA database was suggested.

    Kind of amazing, Brave New World stuff, as has been mentioned too.

    EDIT for clarity.
    Last edited by Gina; 02-24-13 at 02:11 AM.

  7. #197
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    So where does it end? Every bastard created out there gets a full ride on my coattails?

    I'll pass. There has to be some eggs broken to make this omelet. Once people realize that stupidity of this level essentially earns a death warrant if you don't have family that will let you leech, either they'll adjust their attitudes or they'll be made examples of in the effort that the next crop of idiots learn the lesson.
    It's never ok to advocate something that you know will make innocent children suffer when there is an alternative. Here in Australia, I pay approx 23-25% Tax on income earned and a 1.5% Medicare Levy. I don't go without any essentials and have more than enough money to live on. I don't live outside my means and i don't waste a lot of money. I also still manage to provide financial sponsorship towards 4 childrens education and part living expenses outside of Australia. If i had the option of earning more income on a lesser tax bracket just for me but at the expense of someone less fortunate than me then i would refuse. I understand others don't feel the same way

  8. #198
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Should people be required to qualify and obtain a license to have children? If so, what should be the standards to qualify and why?

    People need a license to drive, hunt, fish, etc and society is inundated with government regulations as it is, and yet people can breed freely without regard for their ability to provide for their children and regardless of genetic health. Personally, I think it would be disastrous to give the government control over reproduction, especially considering the lousy job it does with everything else. And yet, it is illogical for unhealthy and/or poverty stricken people to breed.
    As an adoptive father, I had to ask permission of a bunch of different people on 2 continents.

    But in general, I don't think you'd be able to enforce it unless you forced abortions on those who got pregnant without a license.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  9. #199
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    so let me recap a bit here.

    1. Everyone, before getting pregnant has to get a license. The procedure and qualifications for which have not been discussed in much detail, as far as I can see. IMO, this would have to cover everyone. Regardless of socio-economic status or it's discriminatory. Everyone should have to go through the steps to qualify. So before say a Donald Trump or a senator/congressman, hedge fund trader or doctor could procreate, they too would have to qualify and get a license.
    This might be evil of me, but I don't think Donald Trump, senators/congressmen, or hedge fund traders should qualify or get a license. Just flat out. If you've sold your soul like they have, you've nothing left to give to a child.

    3. Sterilization has been brought up. In exchange for benefits. Advocating for eugenics.
    Sterilization for benefits does not equate to Eugenics. I can't even tie those together. This leaves sterilization optional and benefits optional. It's a voluntary trade.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    It's never ok to advocate something that you know will make innocent children suffer when there is an alternative. Here in Australia, I pay approx 23-25% Tax on income earned and a 1.5% Medicare Levy. I don't go without any essentials and have more than enough money to live on. I don't live outside my means and i don't waste a lot of money. I also still manage to provide financial sponsorship towards 4 childrens education and part living expenses outside of Australia. If i had the option of earning more income on a lesser tax bracket just for me but at the expense of someone less fortunate than me then i would refuse. I understand others don't feel the same way
    I would be completely fine if people stayed "on the dole" when the dole is completely charity-based. People that wanted to help the less fortunate who breed other less fortunate babies who breed other less fortunate babies...can do so under their own volition. I myself would have no part of it.

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