View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
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    85 69.67%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #11
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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    I see no reason to, and I'd rather steer as far away from eugenic abuse as I possibly could.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bethlehem Bill View Post
    but in this country we are free to try and do almost anything we want, just as we are free to live with the consequences of those actions

    taking away the freedom to start a family is shockingly un-american
    Regulating people's lives is the name of the game, nowadays. Welcome to 'Murica.

    Poverty, trauma and myriad other intergenerational social problems present to us countless scenarios in which we have to also consider the rights and needs of children whose parents create them, neglect them and abuse them, simply because they are so profoundly incompetent to parent. You have to be able to acknowledge the ethical dilemma inherent in these scenarios.

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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bethlehem Bill View Post
    absolutely not

    it would be great if all parents fully understood the consequences of having a child, and were financially and emotionally prepared before actually having the child

    it would also be great if all people fully understood the consequences of their own personal financial decisions, like using credit cards, taking out mortgages/loans, etc

    but in this country we are free to try and do almost anything we want, just as we are free to live with the consequences of those actions

    taking away the freedom to start a family is shockingly un-american
    But we're not living with consequences of those actions. Lots of people who shouldn't have kids because of maturity and financial levels get floated along with entitlement programs paid for by working taxpayers like myself.

    They can die in the street, for all I care. I'm sick of being robbed, and I'm tired of subsidizing stupidity.

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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    One need not use that level of gov't control, yet many improvements in our gov't provided social services (safety net?) are possible. I will list a few suggestions in that area (welfare for those with children):

    1) Require a completed HS education (GED is OK) for any such benefit to the non-disabled.

    2) Require an improvement plan, and adherence to it, to continue getting those benefits.

    3) Define, and rigorously enforce, a lifetime cap on said assistance.

    4) I realize this is an imperfect analogy, in many ways, but bear with me here. Has anyone ever thought about the (correct?) gov't reaction to one that keeps a pet in substandard conditions? You do not get gov't "help", the pet is removed from you, given emergency care, placed in an accreditied facility and offered for adoption. You do not get a reward for that personal failure, in fact, often you are charged with a crime.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Should people be required to qualify and obtain a license to have children? If so, what should be the standards to qualify and why?

    People need a license to drive, hunt, fish, etc and society is inundated with government regulations as it is, and yet people can breed freely without regard for their ability to provide for their children and regardless of genetic health. Personally, I think it would be disastrous to give the government control over reproduction, especially considering the lousy job it does with everything else. And yet, it is illogical for unhealthy and/or poverty stricken people to breed.
    Believe me, I get where you're coming from in theory, but I have to vote no.

    I just cannot accept the argument that people don't control their own bodily functions. I can't support a state that tells other people what is and isn't ok to do with their own bodies. It is unfortunate that sometimes bad decisions affect children who are now their own people, but there is no way around the genesis of the situation.

    The other problem is that strict controls of fertility like this NEVER go well. It doesn't matter what you're trying to do -- lower population, increase it, selectively get people to breed -- it doesn't matter. The results are always horrifying and evil. The result is always oppression and molestation of women, suffering children, and massive black-market fertility operations (whether it's to encourage or deter fertility) that inevitably wind up being dangerous.

    Look at China and Romania if you need a couple of examples. It is an absolute nightmare. I can't support inevitable human rights abuses.

    There are better ways to accomplish the same goals. Strong education about sexual health and contraception are MORE effective than limiting people's ability to breed in the long run. And no one has to be violated in the process.

  6. #16
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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    I balk at having government issuing licenses to have children. The implications, of how it could possibly be enforced and regulated, are quite chilling.

    What are the criteria? Passing a course? Proof of income? How much is enough? Does a doctor have to check for license? Does the hospital? What if people have kids without a license? What is the penalty?

    Then we have opened the door to other things like age? Is there a cutoff? Health? Testing for genetic diseases? See where I'm going?

    I agree, there are way too many poorly prepared, negligent and abusive parents.

    Maybe we'd be better of requiring full blown parenting classes in high school? Middle school? We have health and sex ed. Why not parenting? I know. That's probably a whole kettle of fish, but just throwing it out there.

    I just can't cotton to having the government in our bedrooms.

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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I see no reason to, and I'd rather steer as far away from eugenic abuse as I possibly could.
    What, of these two hypotheticals, do you see as a more horrendous notion:

    A) Denying/suspending the right of an addict to reproduce, or

    B) An addict reproducing a child with fetal substance-induced brain damage who then raises him/her in a neglectful and/or abusive environment until the state steps in and puts the child in an unfamiliar foster setting, or series of foster settings?

    In other words, you find the act of preventing a horrible situation to be a horrible thing in and of itself.

    Huge dilemma.

    This is one of my LEAST libertarian stances, I admit. I do not value some people's reproductive freedoms above the rights of children not to be put through immense suffering.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 02-23-13 at 09:26 PM.

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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    The easiest way to enforce licensure in this aspect would be to block parents applying for ANY form of government aid. This makes it very simple - if you're able to raise a child without taxpayer assistance, you're probably suited to be a parent anyway.

    If you need food stamps and you're not licensed, tough luck for you. Move back in with your parents. Be a burden on them, not me.

  9. #19
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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    I don't disagree with the overall premise, that people shouldn't have children before they're ready and that parenting really does require training. But such a rule would be impossible to enforce, and would constitute a completely unacceptable infringement of personal liberty. Government should not have that kind of control over people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Well, we we could stop encouraging people who cannot afford them by not giving additional benefits for additional children. And before all the autocrats say it never happens that way, it happens that way......
    The net result of that kind of policy ends up punishing the children, rather than discouraging the parents.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  10. #20
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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    But we're not living with consequences of those actions. Lots of people who shouldn't have kids because of maturity and financial levels get floated along with entitlement programs paid for by working taxpayers like myself.

    They can die in the street, for all I care. I'm sick of being robbed, and I'm tired of subsidizing stupidity.
    That's repulsive.

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