View Poll Results: Do you think third parties should be allowed on the national debates?

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  • Yes

    70 88.61%
  • No

    6 7.59%
  • I dont know

    3 3.80%
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Thread: Should 3rd Parties Be Allowed on the National Debate

  1. #21
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    Re: Should 3rd Parties Be Allowed on the National Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The number is not capped at 2, it is 15 % poll support. If you reach that barrier, you will be invited. As such the premise of this poll is incorrect.
    That is the only limitation? That seems very reasonable. Do you know how the determination was made when the debates were run by the League of Women Voters?
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  2. #22
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    Re: Should 3rd Parties Be Allowed on the National Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Speach is free in this country. You can get all the exposure you want.
    Not really. The coverage is very limited, purposefully, competition is eliminated, purposefully. You cannot get "all the exposure you want" less you are independently wealthy. The rules are specifically set up against that and the press goes along for the ride. You got maybe like CSPAN or Russia Today apparently; but that's it. How much of the third parties did you see covered in the major media? Is that "all the exposure you want"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    15 % threshold is not that outrageous, if you can't get that much support, you are not winning and it defeats the point of the debate to have you there. Build support, and the rest will come. If you can't build support, then you are not getting elected, and there is no point in having you at the debate.
    It's super outrageous is a system of controlled exposure and manipulated press. You're endorsing the whole Catch-22. Need exposure to garner support, but you have to garner support to gain exposure. I don't think that it necessarily means that you allow everyone in; but proper political competition is important for the People to keep a Republic. As is, the rules and coverage is certainly set up against exposure for third party candidates.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Should 3rd Parties Be Allowed on the National Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not really. The coverage is very limited, purposefully, competition is eliminated, purposefully. You cannot get "all the exposure you want" less you are independently wealthy. The rules are specifically set up against that and the press goes along for the ride. You got maybe like CSPAN or Russia Today apparently; but that's it. How much of the third parties did you see covered in the major media? Is that "all the exposure you want"?



    It's super outrageous is a system of controlled exposure and manipulated press. You're endorsing the whole Catch-22. Need exposure to garner support, but you have to garner support to gain exposure. I don't think that it necessarily means that you allow everyone in; but proper political competition is important for the People to keep a Republic. As is, the rules and coverage is certainly set up against exposure for third party candidates.
    Have you heard of these things, we call them free speech and free market. That means you can do the exact same things successful candidates do. Step 1: adopt a stance on issues people support. Step 2: promote yourself and your stances. Step 3: cross the popularity threshold. Step 4: ??? Step 5: Profit.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  4. #24
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    Re: Should 3rd Parties Be Allowed on the National Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Thanks for the info Sam! How did Ross Perot get in the debates in 1992?
    IIRC, Bill Clinton wanted him included.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Should 3rd Parties Be Allowed on the National Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Have you heard of these things, we call them free speech and free market. That means you can do the exact same things successful candidates do. Step 1: adopt a stance on issues people support. Step 2: promote yourself and your stances. Step 3: cross the popularity threshold. Step 4: ??? Step 5: Profit.
    I've heard of those, great ideals we no longer have. Speech is limited, press is controlled. Now to garner the support you talk of, one must be independently wealthy (as shown by Ross Perot) so that they can buy the support.

    Again, you're endorsing the Catch-22.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #26
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    Re: Should 3rd Parties Be Allowed on the National Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Speach is free in this country. You can get all the exposure you want. 15 % threshold is not that outrageous, if you can't get that much support, you are not winning and it defeats the point of the debate to have you there. Build support, and the rest will come. If you can't build support, then you are not getting elected, and there is no point in having you at the debate.
    It is outrageous when from the beginning you are marginalized because the major media outlets know you won't be included in the presidential debates.
    Voter ignorance prevents third party inclusion, the only way to get their inclusion is through mass media.

    But you can't buy mass media without deep pockets or lots of donations.
    Of all the things you can be reasonable about, this is not one.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Should 3rd Parties Be Allowed on the National Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I've heard of those, great ideals we no longer have. Speech is limited, press is controlled. Now to garner the support you talk of, one must be independently wealthy (as shown by Ross Perot) so that they can buy the support.

    Again, you're endorsing the Catch-22.
    No, I am endorsing people getting support to gain access to presidential debates. If you can't gain support, you are not relevant to the process. Third parties can fundraise, can buy advertising, all the things the big parties do. That they are not successful at it is not the fault of the system.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #28
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    Re: Should 3rd Parties Be Allowed on the National Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I've heard of those, great ideals we no longer have. Speech is limited, press is controlled. Now to garner the support you talk of, one must be independently wealthy (as shown by Ross Perot) so that they can buy the support.

    Again, you're endorsing the Catch-22.
    That's precisely it, you get ****ed both ways by "reasonable" requirements.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #29
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    Re: Should 3rd Parties Be Allowed on the National Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No, I am endorsing people getting support to gain access to presidential debates. If you can't gain support, you are not relevant to the process. Third parties can fundraise, can buy advertising, all the things the big parties do. That they are not successful at it is not the fault of the system.
    You can't fund raise without media exposure and you won't get media exposure without fund raising.
    He's 100% right, you're supporting a catch 22.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #30
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    Re: Should 3rd Parties Be Allowed on the National Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No, I am endorsing people getting support to gain access to presidential debates. If you can't gain support, you are not relevant to the process. Third parties can fundraise, can buy advertising, all the things the big parties do. That they are not successful at it is not the fault of the system.
    You cannot gain the support without access to the system. The main parties have HUGE campaign chests, the rules for donating make it so third parties do not. That means they cannot buy the advertising and do all the things the big parties do less their candidate is independently wealthy. They cannot gain the support because they get no coverage and until they are allowed equal access to the system, that will remain the case.

    As I said, you are endorsing the Catch-22.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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