Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?[W: 356]

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

PirateMk1 said:

1.)Emperical proof has not been given, in fact NO proof has been given.
2.)Wheres the documentation to back it up? Someones opinion of what happen to them is not fact. Stories are NOT fact.
3.)This topic has been around for some time. You would think there would have been studies on it. I am asking for data.
4.)I am asking for PROOF. No proof, no facts, just supossition of your OPINION. Prove your asseration. Prove there is white privaledge.
5.)Not racisim, white priveledge. Theres a big difference.
6.)The more I look the more I think you got NO case. Where's the lawsuits? Wheres the the studies? Wheres the data proving your point.
7.)You have brought to the table NOTHING.

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1.) this is a lie has supported by the definition of Empirical proof i gave you :shrug:
2.)documentation is NOT needed
3.) very possible, it has factually existed since americas birth
4.) "proof" has already been factually given and you have been told how to obtain more factuall proof. You want a scientific study, i dont have one :shrug: but that doesnt the fact proof as been given and you have been told how to obtain more.
5.) racism by the minority is white privileged LMAO you keep ignoring this eventhough its been pointed out by many posters, its not some made up thing you wanted to be. So NO there is no BIG difference.
6.) your opinion is meaningless to the facts and there have been laws suits over discrimination, are you kidding me? LMAO
7.) this is another lie, me and other poster have brought facts and proof to the table and you have been shown how to get more proof. You not accepting this or denying it changes nothing :shrug: your dishonest and ignorance of even the definition of your own words you are using is not my problem LOL

hold your breath, stomp your feet by DEFINITION empirical proof and facts have been provided no matter what your false opinion is

now because you dont like it you want scientific proof in addition to the facts and proof that have already been posted, well go get some

this is basically what you are doing, posters have given you two bats and have given your friend two more bats, they tell you to put them in them in a pile and count them, you come up with 4, they showed you that 2 + 2 = 4 but now you want scientific studies and documentation. LOL well thats fine but the fact remains proof and facts have already been given to you.

good luck in your quest, facts wont change though.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

JayDubya said:

Did you expect different? There is a pattern of behavior going on here, if you haven't noticed.


In any event, no, I voted with the majority here, that this nonsensical identity politics movement is a steaming crock of warmed over turd. Conceptually, it is bankrupt. It as, as someone else put it, the race card by another name.

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links to this? proof? facts?

thats right you got nothing

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

ThePlayDrive said:

Dude, I provided ample studies on this and there are hundreds more. If you looked at the studies I provided and if you've done even more research and you've found little evidence of white privilege, then it's safe to say that you are being willfully ignorant.

And LOL at you saying I tried to "box you in as a closest racist". I literally have no idea how you came to that conclusion, but I suspect it's from the same distorted thought process that led you to believe I'm arguing that "life is simple."

It's pretty clear that you aren't coming at this topic from a place of reason and, as I told another poster, since I can't work with that, this will be my last response to you. I do hope, however, that you will become aware of whatever psychological block may be preventing you from examining this topic honest and that, when you are ready, you will re-examine the well-documented, well-researched phenomenon that we are talking about.

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some posters just like to make stuff up and ignore facts when it doesnt match their illogical and unsupportable opinion. its entertaining.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Objective-J said:

some posters just like to make stuff up and ignore facts when it doesnt match their illogical and unsupportable opinion. its entertaining.

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Yeah. I find this entire thread exceptionally amusing.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

ThePlayDrive said:

Dude, I provided ample studies on this and there are hundreds more. If you looked at the studies I provided and if you've done even more research and you've found little evidence of white privilege, then it's safe to say that you are being willfully ignorant.

And LOL at you saying I tried to "box you in as a closest racist". I literally have no idea how you came to that conclusion, but I suspect it's from the same distorted thought process that led you to believe I'm arguing that "life is simple."

It's pretty clear that you aren't coming at this topic from a place of reason and, as I told another poster, since I can't work with that, this will be my last response to you. I do hope, however, that you will become aware of whatever psychological block may be preventing you from examining this topic honest and that, when you are ready, you will re-examine the well-documented, well-researched phenomenon that we are talking about.

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To be fair, though, I used to think like many of the people here when I was younger. I was angry about things like affirmative action and felt like white people today were being blamed for the sins of white people in the past. In fact, I felt as though I was being blamed for the racial disparities in American life, and I was angered by this because I don't even have an ancestral link to America's racial problems since my ancestors first got to this country shortly before I was born. I was even a bit racist, and I'm not afraid to admit it. I've moved much further along the path described by Helms' white racial identity development model since those days (when I was in the contact and disintegration stages of white identity development).

The person I was then would have argued vehemently with the person I am today. I'm not sure that there is any way to really convince someone who is fully entrenched in one of those earlier stages of white identity development that certain things exist. The resistance is often based on their own feelings of persecution for being white. They want the world to just "get over it already" and they feel unjustly blamed for the racial issues that exist in the US. And to be fair, they are unjustly blamed for some things. Most of them will have had some encounter in their life with a black person in the Immersion/emersion stage of Black racial identity development (Cross) which is the stage that the stereotyped "militant black man" would be found. People in that stage will unjustly blame white individuals for all sorts of societal injustices.

It's hard to really blame someone for their resistance to the idea of white privilege. Some people are simply not able to acknowledge it.

And the thing to remember about these development models is that, while some people may move through all of the stages in their life as I have, some people will spend their entire lives in just one or two stages, and some people start off at "higher" stages than others. Some even start out "higher" and then "regress" to "lower" stages, while others may start out at the "lowest" stage and skip over multiple steps to reach the "highest" stage. Everyone is different. Although it is pretty easy to figure out where people are in their identity development by using these models as a guide. It certainly alleviates frustration when you know exactly what a person is capable of acknowledging in these debates.

You aren't going to convince anyone that white privilege exists if they are not "ready" to acknowledge it. The value of these debates is usually not found with the person you are debating with directly, but is instead found with the person who is ready to make progress along their own path of racial identity development. Often they will read what you have said, or the studies you have cited, and become more aware than they were previously. That doesn't mean there is anything inherently "wrong" with a person who is in an earlier stage and unready to progress. They are limited in a way that is actually quite common. I went through that time myself. Some of them will one day be ready to move on, others will never be ready.

The thing that does bothers me about these debates, though, is that many of the unready people have the totally misguided idea that what I say on this topic is "liberal" in nature.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Tucker Case said:

Why thank you. I love to start my days with passive aggressive niceties.

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Passive aggressive? There you go again - telling others what they think instead of just asking them.

On the contrary.

My wishing you a nice day is 100% sincere.

And I hold no animosity towards you.

Pity, maybe (30+ posts a day for over 3 1/2 years and seemingly rather trollish in your behaviour...you must have a rather empty life).

But no animosity.

And it does me no good for you to have a bad day.


Anyway, back to the subject.


Have a nice day.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Objective-J said:

1.)it has a uniform definition. look up privilege, its that simple

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No it is not that simple at all. You just want to believe that it is simple.

2.) it doesnt accuse a whole race of racism, thats nonsense lol

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Perhaps not an entire race but the the term makes it clear that we are talking about one specific cline and that is people with a shin color that can be said to appear white.

3.) again its NOT against all white people LMAO nor does it have to do with the whole race being racist, thats is also nonsenical. You do know the majority of people in this thread that acknowledge the fact its exists are white right? Seems you are making a lot of stuff up.

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The term "white privilege" is aimed entirely at the people that have ancestors that come from Western Europe, it is a accusation based solely as a racist based definition. People with other clines are entirely out of the picture. People with ancestors from Western Africa cannot be engaging in "white privilege" based on the fact that they do not have the same clines as Western Europeans descendants.

ANd just because you put worth on the so called race of other posters really means nothing. So some are white who cares? Is that supposed to make me get with the program?

And what am I making up specifically?

4.) its not subjective, its factual and its racism :shrug:

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At one point you said that it was subjective and now you turn around and claim that its "factual and its racism". Could you make up your mind?

like i said this is all you need to ask yourself:

are there any factual stories, reports that people were hired, promoted, treated special etc etc etc simply because they were white? yes therefore it exists

anything else you try to make up or add to it is on you and has nothgin to do with it factually still existing.

WHat part arent you getting?

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Yes factually speaking there is a thing called racial prejudice. Which is what we are actually talking about here when we can show evidence of unethical hiring practices, promotions, special treatment, housing etc based on skin color. The fact that people with white skin engage in such activity on a larger basis because people with white skin are the majority does not warrant a term just for them. Which is my point, that we are actually talking about a social phenomena called racial privilege that happens with all walks of life no matter what skin color we have.

But you seem caught up in believing that I am denying a social construct but I am actually denying the racial slur called "white privilege" since all humans engage in the same damn behavioral afflictions. The world is grey right? Then why are you singling out people with white skin as the bad guys? Is it because the majority of Americans have white skin? Do you deny that people with other skin colors engage in giving other people with the same skin color privileges? Are you accusing whole skinned people of being the only people in America capable or more prone to racism? If not why must you only talk about "white privilege" and not talk about "racial privilege" as a affliction of all humans?

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

FreedomFromAll said:

1.)No it is not that simple at all. You just want to believe that it is simple.

2.)Perhaps not an entire race but the the term makes it clear that we are talking about one specific cline and that is people with a shin color that can be said to appear white.
The term "white privilege" is aimed entirely at the people that have ancestors that come from Western Europe, it is a accusation based solely as a racist based definition. People with other clines are entirely out of the picture. People with ancestors from Western Africa cannot be engaging in "white privilege" based on the fact that they do not have the same clines as Western Europeans descendants.

ANd just because you put worth on the so called race of other posters really means nothing. So some are white who cares? Is that supposed to make me get with the program?

And what am I making up specifically?

3.) At one point you said that it was subjective and now you turn around and claim that its "factual and its racism". Could you make up your mind?



4.)Yes factually speaking there is a thing called racial prejudice. Which is what we are actually talking about here when we can show evidence of unethical hiring practices, promotions, special treatment, housing etc based on skin color. The fact that people with white skin engage in such activity on a larger basis because people with white skin are the majority does not warrant a term just for them. Which is my point, that we are actually talking about a social phenomena called racial privilege that happens with all walks of life no matter what skin color we have.

5.)But you seem caught up in believing that I am denying a social construct but I am actually denying the racial slur called "white privilege" since all humans engage in the same damn behavioral afflictions. The world is grey right? Then why are you singling out people with white skin as the bad guys? Is it because the majority of Americans have white skin? Do you deny that people with other skin colors engage in giving other people with the same skin color privileges? Are you accusing whole skinned people of being the only people in America capable or more prone to racism? If not why must you only talk about "white privilege" and not talk about "racial privilege" as a affliction of all humans?

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1.) yes it is, thats a fact i tend to just go by what words FACTUALLY mean not opinion and guess and philophy. It is that easy. YOU are looking for something not be discussed and making it harder cause thats what YOU want. I am supported by reality and the meaning of words.

2.) thers no perhaps at about it, its a fact it doesnt mean the entire white race is racist LOL

also not some all but ONE as far as i know and its not about getting with the program (which is very telling to your biased dishonesty view) its about the fact that if it was used to BASH a whole race and make them look bad way would all the white people acknowledge the fact it exists LMAO

you are making up that it means all whites are racist and that all rights participate in and or receive it, this is simply not true :shrug:

3.) no i never did, YOU misunderstood what i called a fact and what i called subjective

its a fact it exists
its subjective to what extent, how much, where, who and why its happens

try to keep up and not let things blend together sine you have obviously already made up your mind no matter what facts you are presented with

4.)nope, there no BIGGER IMAGINARY thing going on its just racism conducted by people belonging to the majority

fact remains it exists, you not liking the term is meaningless, the term hurting your feelings is also meaningless.

5.)and yes, i have said many times with many other posters lots of other bigotry, misogyny, privileged, special treatment, favoritism, discrimination exists also, it doesnt change the fact that white privileged exist.

so im not caught up on anything im staying on topic and talking about things that matter to this topic. Nobody is singling out anybody this is another lie.

we are talking about white privileged because its the OPs questions and the title of the thread LMAO

if you would like to talk about a different topic make a thread about it :shrug:

try to keep up because you have factually been proven wrong and are just making stuff up based on false assumptions that plainly and simply is not happening. Honesty will serve you better the kneejerk illogical emotion.

Oh by the way, fact remains it exists
not sure why this fact bothers you

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Tucker Case said:

To be fair, though, I used to think like many of the people here when I was younger. I was angry about things like affirmative action and felt like white people today were being blamed for the sins of white people in the past. In fact, I felt as though I was being blamed for the racial disparities in American life, and I was angered by this because I don't even have an ancestral link to America's racial problems since my ancestors first got to this country shortly before I was born. I was even a bit racist, and I'm not afraid to admit it. I've moved much further along the path described by Helms' white racial identity development model since those days (when I was in the contact and disintegration stages of white identity development).

The person I was then would have argued vehemently with the person I am today. I'm not sure that there is any way to really convince someone who is fully entrenched in one of those earlier stages of white identity development that certain things exist. The resistance is often based on their own feelings of persecution for being white. They want the world to just "get over it already" and they feel unjustly blamed for the racial issues that exist in the US. And to be fair, they are unjustly blamed for some things. Most of them will have had some encounter in their life with a black person in the Immersion/emersion stage of Black racial identity development (Cross) which is the stage that the stereotyped "militant black man" would be found. People in that stage will unjustly blame white individuals for all sorts of societal injustices.

It's hard to really blame someone for their resistance to the idea of white privilege. Some people are simply not able to acknowledge it.

And the thing to remember about these development models is that, while some people may move through all of the stages in their life as I have, some people will spend their entire lives in just one or two stages, and some people start off at "higher" stages than others. Some even start out "higher" and then "regress" to "lower" stages, while others may start out at the "lowest" stage and skip over multiple steps to reach the "highest" stage. Everyone is different. Although it is pretty easy to figure out where people are in their identity development by using these models as a guide. It certainly alleviates frustration when you know exactly what a person is capable of acknowledging in these debates.

You aren't going to convince anyone that white privilege exists if they are not "ready" to acknowledge it. The value of these debates is usually not found with the person you are debating with directly, but is instead found with the person who is ready to make progress along their own path of racial identity development. Often they will read what you have said, or the studies you have cited, and become more aware than they were previously. That doesn't mean there is anything inherently "wrong" with a person who is in an earlier stage and unready to progress. They are limited in a way that is actually quite common. I went through that time myself. Some of them will one day be ready to move on, others will never be ready.

The thing that does bothers me about these debates, though, is that many of the unready people have the totally misguided idea that what I say on this topic is "liberal" in nature.

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In the abstract, I'm quite open about my belief in everything you've said here. It's very easy for me to understand how a white person would be intensely opposed to the reality of white privilege just as it's easy for me to understand why a black person would harbor anger and resentment towards white people, in general. Hell, I even understand why racism seems logical to some racists. In any case, I think such individuals tend to be immersed in an environment of people mostly of their own race and therefore, not exposed to experiences that make it more difficult think as irrationally. Moreover, such people tend to take negative ideas expressed about their race very personally and, as a result, examine things like racism and white privilege from a personal rather than academic perspective. This is why I told Pirate that I hope he moves on from whatever "psychological block" is preventing him from honestly evaluating the subject.

While, as I said, I think this way when it comes to abstract examinations of the subject, I'm much less forgiving in one on one interaction.

And sure, I know that there are certain people who cannot be convinced because they're currently not ready for it. It's similar to addiction - just like you usually have to want sobriety to get it, you usually have to want knowledge to receive it. And, with that it mind, it's often obvious who the "not ready" people are from the extent of self-aggrandizing delusion that exists in their posts. In spite of that, I know what I want my part to be in "discussions" about these topics. I want to provide people with plenty of evidence whether through research, real-world examples or logic-based arguments because that's what I demand of myself and because, if I'm going to having part in getting people to see the truth, I want it to be on the side of providing actual info and not just rants against the system.

Also, I don't think (?) I've head of Helms' racial identity development model, but I'm glad you referenced it because I think it will help me understand people more easily which I appreciate. It also makes me wonder if I should tailor my posts to lower standards of what people might be capable, as you put it, of acknowledging rather than just going all out with an overload of information. With that in mind, one of thought processes I've started to grow into over the past year is the fact that I just have to accept that the world is going to exist with people in it who just frankly don't know what they're talking about and are, in fact, proud of that (and that the world can still progress in spite of the hindrance they are to the effort).

As far as the "liberal" argument: I've had many people say the same thing to me as well. It's just another way to facilitate confirmation bias. The concept of "white privilege" is apolitical even though it can have political implications.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Gipper said:

I would LOVE for you to give me examples of how being white has helped you.

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Well, for example, my family are WASPS and compared to Jewish, Irish, African slaves my status being raised upper middle class had an advantage over these groups or the foundation I should say gave me an advantage. Can you measure that and say all WASPS had an unfair advantage or "privelege", probably not, but I never grew up to feel like I had an inferiority complex being white but feel that a large portion of minorities probably did due to racism etc. If anyone has a right to feel that white privilege exists, it would be minority groups but don't think there is anything that can be done to counter that perception, except for more time.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Awesome! said:

Well, for example, my family are WASPS and compared to Jewish, Irish, African slaves my status being raised upper middle class had an advantage over these groups or the foundation I should say gave me an advantage. Can you measure that and say all WASPS had an unfair advantage or "privelege", probably not, but I never grew up to feel like I had an inferiority complex being white but feel that a large portion of minorities probably did due to racism etc. If anyone has a right to feel that white privilege exists, it would be minority groups but don't think there is anything that can be done to counter that perception, except for more time.

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Money privilege is not white privilege. Sorry.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Objective-J said:

1.) yes it is, thats a fact i tend to just go by what words FACTUALLY mean not opinion and guess and philophy. It is that easy. YOU are looking for something not be discussed and making it harder cause thats what YOU want. I am supported by reality and the meaning of words.

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You are being overly simplistic to support your bias.

2.) thers no perhaps at about it, its a fact it doesnt mean the entire white race is racist LOL

also not some all but ONE as far as i know and its not about getting with the program (which is very telling to your biased dishonesty view) its about the fact that if it was used to BASH a whole race and make them look bad way would all the white people acknowledge the fact it exists LMAO

you are making up that it means all whites are racist and that all rights participate in and or receive it, this is simply not true :shrug:

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The term isnt implying that some people with white skin behave a certain way. The term "white" implies all people that have white skin and nothing less. "White privilege" is a generalization its a logical fallacy. But then you are tryimng to speak for me so I guess you will believe that you are right no matter what here.

3.) no i never did, YOU misunderstood what i called a fact and what i called subjective

its a fact it exists
its subjective to what extent, how much, where, who and why its happens

try to keep up and not let things blend together sine you have obviously already made up your mind no matter what facts you are presented with

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LMAO extent, how much, where, who and why? Its a fact that its subjective then? lol come on who are you trying to BS here? You assert its a fact then define the fact as subjective.

4.)nope, there no BIGGER IMAGINARY thing going on its just racism conducted by people belonging to the majority

fact remains it exists, you not liking the term is meaningless, the term hurting your feelings is also meaningless.

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I never denied that racism exists, but go ahead keep lying in my face buddy I know what I have said and what I think despite you trying to say otherwise.

5.)and yes, i have said many times with many other posters lots of other bigotry, misogyny, privileged, special treatment, favoritism, discrimination exists also, it doesnt change the fact that white privileged exist.

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The proper term is "In-group favoritism" in sociological terms..

so im not caught up on anything im staying on topic and talking about things that matter to this topic. Nobody is singling out anybody this is another lie.

we are talking about white privileged because its the OPs questions and the title of the thread LMAO

if you would like to talk about a different topic make a thread about it :shrug:

try to keep up because you have factually been proven wrong and are just making stuff up based on false assumptions that plainly and simply is not happening. Honesty will serve you better the kneejerk illogical emotion.

Oh by the way, fact remains it exists
not sure why this fact bothers you

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You like to act like you are in the know and are staying on topic. The problem is that you are ignorant of the actual topic. The actual topic despite the huge lack of knowledge flying around this thread is actually Ethnocentrism. Indeed I am on topic since I am disputing the relevance of the term "White privilege". But my friend are are trying to force me to believe that the term is relevant and are trying hard to stop me from criticizing the term. You have even went as far as trying to assign me your version of my argument. Im actually taking a neutral stance by admitting that factual observations exist but I do not assert an actual side that I would be taking. Despite your attempts though I still have not taken a side on the issue other than to say that people with light colored skin are not the sole perpetrators.

Sometimes subjects are much deeper than the superficialness of a OP's question. But go ahead keep believing that its simple, if you want to stay on that level.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

DA60 said:

Passive aggressive? There you go again - telling others what they think instead of just asking them.

On the contrary.

My wishing you a nice day is 100% sincere.

And I hold no animosity towards you.

Pity, maybe (30+ posts a day for over 3 1/2 years and seemingly rather trollish in your behaviour...you must have a rather empty life).

But no animosity.

And it does me no good for you to have a bad day.


Anyway, back to the subject.


Have a nice day.

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Passive aggressive describes a behavior, not your thoughts. I'm sure you believe that you really are wishing me to have a nice day, but your actions clearly imply otherwise. Fortunately for me, though, I do find it all rather enjoyable.

Also, 13-8 is 5, not 4. Just some math help there in case you haven't caught up yet.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

ThePlayDrive said:

With that in mind, one of thought processes I've started to grow into over the past year is the fact that I just have to accept that the world is going to exist with people in it who just frankly don't know what they're talking about and are, in fact, proud of that (and that the world can still progress in spite of the hindrance they are to the effort).

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I've reached the same acceptance, but I still struggle with it from time to time. :lol:

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

FreedomFromAll said:

1.)You are being overly simplistic to support your bias.

2.)The term isnt implying that some people with white skin behave a certain way. The term "white" implies all people that have white skin and nothing less. "White privilege" is a generalization its a logical fallacy. But then you are tryimng to speak for me so I guess you will believe that you are right no matter what here.

3.)LMAO extent, how much, where, who and why? Its a fact that its subjective then? lol come on who are you trying to BS here? You assert its a fact then define the fact as subjective.

I never denied that racism exists, but go ahead keep lying in my face buddy I know what I have said and what I think despite you trying to say otherwise.

The proper term is "In-group favoritism" in sociological terms..

You like to act like you are in the know and are staying on topic. The problem is that you are ignorant of the actual topic. The actual topic despite the huge lack of knowledge flying around this thread is actually Ethnocentrism. Indeed I am on topic since I am disputing the relevance of the term "White privilege". But my friend are are trying to force me to believe that the term is relevant and are trying hard to stop me from criticizing the term. You have even went as far as trying to assign me your version of my argument. Im actually taking a neutral stance by admitting that factual observations exist but I do not assert an actual side that I would be taking. Despite your attempts though I still have not taken a side on the issue other than to say that people with light colored skin are not the sole perpetrators.

Sometimes subjects are much deeper than the superficialness of a OP's question. But go ahead keep believing that its simple, if you want to stay on that level.

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1.) false unless you consider the dictionary and factual meanings of words biased LMAO
2.) false this is what you want it to mean in an attempt to dismiss the facts but it doent and never did
3.) why are you lying, AGAIN no BS, again words, and sentences have meanings.

its existence is a fact
how much of it is present, where and when and why is subjective

this is basic common sense and doesnt mean anything close to the lie you just stated :laughat:

4.) feel free to ADD that term if you like but i all the terms i used are already proper.

5.) another lie, you say this yet you are the one going off topic and i never did :shrug:

the reality is, it is that simply since the discussion is does it exist.

It does, thats a proven fact.

If there are other topics youd like to discuss feel free, they wont impact this already established and proven fact :shrug:

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Not everyone that benefited from white privilege is bigoted. Because in truth almost all white people have benefited. Is it fair? Of course not but most of life is not based on that kind of situational fairness. The laws give everyone rights of equality but not equal circumstances. I wish I were born with more money or the ability to acquire it or had better looks and health. You play the hand your dealt to the best of your ability.

You're born in this country (USA) with more rights, privileges and wealth than most of the developed world, are you going to devoid yourself of these benefits in order to be on a more equal footing with the rest of the people? Or are you going to accept that your status as an American comes with these inherited assets? The hierarchy of our civilization is not always based on fair actions, unfortunately but it is the path of evolution.

I experienced just a little profiling myself as a perspective job applicant and lost 2 positions for not being the correct color or sex. I was furious and thought it completely unfair, so I can't imagine living an entire life with those negative implications.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Gipper said:

Money privilege is not white privilege. Sorry.

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He didn't say that it was. Sorry.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Gipper said:

So you're not denying the existence of black privilege, woman privilege, Latino privilege...

If everyone's privileged, then nobody is privileged - by definition.

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Some people are more privileged than others, by a lot.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Tucker Case said:

Passive aggressive describes a behavior, not your thoughts. I'm sure you believe that you really are wishing me to have a nice day, but your actions clearly imply otherwise. Fortunately for me, though, I do find it all rather enjoyable.

Also, 13-8 is 5, not 4. Just some math help there in case you haven't caught up yet.

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Obviously, it is a behaviour. But you really did not understand my response?

Noted.


And the length makes it even worse. That means you have been averaging (by my quick calculation) over 23 posts per day not for 3 1/2 years...but for 4 1/2 years.

Sad.

But it does explain a lot.


Have a nice day.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Considering that a large portion of the posts on this thread are examples of white racism, doubting the existence of white privilege seems strange to me.

But, as I said before, it can be like describing water to fish. When you are white, you don't notice that the police don't pull you over very often, you assume that is normal. You don't notice that people in businesses treat you better, you assume that is normal. You don't notice that the building owner returns your call when you ask about the availability of an apartment for rent, you assume that is normal. Targeted minorities don't always know whether they are being discriminated against in specific incidents either, but after awhile a pattern emerges.

However, there are many statistics establishing the existence of white privilege. It is most obvious when it comes to the criminal justice system where your race is likely to determine whether you get stopped, how you will be treated, whether you will be searched, whether you get arrested, the charges against you, the likelihood of a conviction and the length of your sentence. But again, when you are white, you may think it is normal when a cop lets you off with a warning when you are caught.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Objective-J said:

1.) false unless you consider the dictionary and factual meanings of words biased LMAO

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I didnt deny anything I in fact said that you are being overly simplistic. You going on about dictionaries is just bazaar and had nothing to do with what i said.

2.) false this is what you want it to mean in an attempt to dismiss the facts but it doent and never did

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And what are those facts?

3.) why are you lying, AGAIN no BS, again words, and sentences have meanings.

its existence is a fact
how much of it is present, where and when and why is subjective

this is basic common sense and doesnt mean anything close to the lie you just stated :laughat:

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I am criticizing a term but you see that as lying. I see though you are trying to get me back for pointing out your lies about my actual statements. I guess that you believe that will work in a debate?

4.) feel free to ADD that term if you like but i all the terms i used are already proper.

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In-group favoritism and ethnocentrism are the actual terms used for discussing the issues at hand of course with an view point on racism. its impossible to engage in a intelligent conversation without addressing those terms.

5.) another lie, you say this yet you are the one going off topic and i never did :shrug:

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Its a lie! Its a lie! nice comeback. I didnt go off topic you were just lack the knowledge to understand that I am at the meat of the topic.

the reality is, it is that simply since the discussion is does it exist.

It does, thats a proven fact.

If there are other topics youd like to discuss feel free, they wont impact this already established and proven fact :shrug:

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Ok so now you are making a positive claim and even assert that there are readily available facts. Again I do not dispute that privilege exists (though you keep trying to tell me that I did claim that) WHat I do actually dispute is that the term "white privilege" is a accurate term. I am making the claim that the term "white privilege" on its own is a racist slur and that other more appropriate terms are used in sociology.



Its ok for people of western European descent to want to around others that look like them. This is completely natural though not universal. There does come a point where such behavior becomes racism but then its racism not ethnocentrism, there is a difference look it up.

In-group favoritism isnt just related to how people look. There are many groups with mixed back grounds that treat other like minded people with favoritism.

The color of a person skins isnt the end all factor that creates privileges among groups. The problem with assuming that skin color is the main cause of privilege ignores all other factors that influence peoples decision making. That isnt to say that some people do not make decisions based on skin color alone. But the assertion that "white" people as a majority do make decisions in mainstream society based on skin color alone ignores the other elements and pretends that they do not exist. For example skin color prejudice may have been present but was not exclusively the reasoning behind a decision.

I am not sure why you feel it is necessary for you to cram your opinions down my throat and frankly I dont really care. Believe whatever you want, believe that this is a simple closed case without complicated dynamics if you want. But smileys and insults are weakening your case. There certainly is more to this than just skin color. And for the last time I never denied that white people can be racist nor do I deny that a race can play favoritism. Perhaps you live in a world where your imagination rules over reality but I do not. I recognize a multifaceted complicated situation when I see it. And racism is always complicated otherwise it would simply disappear.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

PirateMk1 said:

Try an uniformed guess then. Is it "white" privledge as you call it or more the founding or dominate cultures "institutional advantage". The US was essintially founded by white european christens with paternalistic bent, yes? Does it not stand to reason that a countries foundational culture and morais, is reflected in its institutions and dominate culture? That most every country has a dominate culture, that determines the norms of that country? Would that just be simply the standard dynamic whatever country and its dominate culture and founding precepts. The reason I ask these questions is because I am fairly well traveled, having been to Africa, the Middle East and Europe and most every state of the union barring Alaska and Hawaii. I have experianced the diffent dynamics of different countries and cultures. "Institutional advantage" is what I call it. Its pervasive in every country and culture. Its a natural, abet unfair tendency of man. Fact is whether you like it or not that advantage to some degree is pretty much ALWAYS going to exist in one form or another though not nessearilly in the current forms or by the curent cultures. ALMOST ALL cultures do this. So more so than others. The United States version is actually fairlly mild. We in our country are EXCEPTIONALY mild point of fact. The point I am attempting to make is the "white privaledge" you experiance is not excactly that per say, but more of the dominate culture and its influence on the norms of society and its institutions. So really "white priveledge" as you put it, is nothing more than a phenominom of a currently dominate culture. Take California for instance, the primary culure has been the white protestent paternal version(s). But as of late it has been slowly changing to one more of a hispanic cultural bent. This has to do with the population change we are exepriancing. Right now "Hispanics" and "whites" are at parity with the trend saying toward the end of this year or next the hispanic population exceeding the white population. As that occures the culture will start to focus more to a hispanic mindset and less a white mindset. This is resulting in more hispanic "institutional advantage".

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You are prety much correct, except that there is really no practical difference "between white" privledge as you call it or more the founding or dominate cultures "institutional advantage."" They are just different names for the phenomena, except that one sounds like racism and the other seems to just be the norm to the privileged person. To the person who is disadvantaged, there is no difference at all.

The fact that a phenomena is natural and widespread does not mean it shouldn't, or can't be changed.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

FreedomFromAll said:

I didnt deny anything I in fact said that you are being overly simplistic. You going on about dictionaries is just bazaar and had nothing to do with what i said.
And what are those facts?
I am criticizing a term but you see that as lying. I see though you are trying to get me back for pointing out your lies about my actual statements. I guess that you believe that will work in a debate?

In-group favoritism and ethnocentrism are the actual terms used for discussing the issues at hand of course with an view point on racism. its impossible to engage in a intelligent conversation without addressing those terms.

Its a lie! Its a lie! nice comeback. I didnt go off topic you were just lack the knowledge to understand that I am at the meat of the topic.

Ok so now you are making a positive claim and even assert that there are readily available facts. Again I do not dispute that privilege exists (though you keep trying to tell me that I did claim that) WHat I do actually dispute is that the term "white privilege" is a accurate term. I am making the claim that the term "white privilege" on its own is a racist slur and that other more appropriate terms are used in sociology.



Its ok for people of western European descent to want to around others that look like them. This is completely natural though not universal. There does come a point where such behavior becomes racism but then its racism not ethnocentrism, there is a difference look it up.

In-group favoritism isnt just related to how people look. There are many groups with mixed back grounds that treat other like minded people with favoritism.

The color of a person skins isnt the end all factor that creates privileges among groups. The problem with assuming that skin color is the main cause of privilege ignores all other factors that influence peoples decision making. That isnt to say that some people do not make decisions based on skin color alone. But the assertion that "white" people as a majority do make decisions in mainstream society based on skin color alone ignores the other elements and pretends that they do not exist. For example skin color prejudice may have been present but was not exclusively the reasoning behind a decision.

I am not sure why you feel it is necessary for you to cram your opinions down my throat and frankly I dont really care. Believe whatever you want, believe that this is a simple closed case without complicated dynamics if you want. But smileys and insults are weakening your case. There certainly is more to this than just skin color. And for the last time I never denied that white people can be racist nor do I deny that a race can play favoritism. Perhaps you live in a world where your imagination rules over reality but I do not. I recognize a multifaceted complicated situation when I see it. And racism is always complicated otherwise it would simply disappear.

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LMAO

well im done addressing all this individually so ill just state the only thing that matters and that is on topic.

I read this whole post and it changes NOTHING, not one thing is changed by your post

this is all that is needed said to your nonsense and opinions

"white privileged factually exist"

let me know when you can prove otherwise. Like i said, ill never post again and ill give you 100$ through my paypal account

also if you dont like your posts being called a lie, dont post lies :shrug: simple solution

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

DA60 said:

I figured you would not understand my response.

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I understood it just fine. I also understand that 13 - 8 = 5 without having to have someone else poitn it out to me. Yay for me!

And the length makes it even worse.

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So 23.54 posts per day (on average) is worse than 30+ per day (on average. I'm not going to bother explaining why the 'on average' makes a difference, cause I'm certain you wouldn't be able to follow that explanation, but suffice to say, it does matter)?

How do you figure?

That means you have been averaging (by my quick calculation) over 23 posts per day not for 3 1/2 years...but for 4 1/2 years.

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23.54 to be precise. If you understood how averages work, you might be able to figure out why your dazzling math fail is also dazzlingly irrelevant.

But do you not think it's worse to not be able to subtract 8 from 13 than it is to post often on a website designed for debate?

Sad.

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Don't be sad. It could be a lot worse for me. I could be incapable of performing simple arithmetic and have very poor grammar skills, for example.

But it does explain a lot.

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I'm sure it had to explain it very slowly, though.

Have a nice day.

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Kim Jong Il say: "Passive aggression is best aggression."

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Gipper said:

Couldn't disagree more.

First of all, America is considered to be the "melting pot", so if that rings true, there really can't be a dominant culture. Also, what is considered "white culture"? Country music? CNN? Coca-Cola? NASCAR? White culture seems to change constantly, as it will occasionally integrate what is considered another culture into its ranks. It really doesn't have a key identifying factor. Now if you said "malt liquor and menthols" or "posses and pregnant teens", you know what they represent. What identity does white culture have?

Second, America does pretty good in balance between commerce and multiculturalism. We don't let it run free like Europe does - and thank God. Look at the more multicultural nations in Europe and see what kinds of troubles they have. In America, the most important color is green. In addition, with the names reference Tucker gave, there's really nothing that says a name that could pass for a Zulu village is indicative of a white person. I've seen some names with 5 or 6 vowels in them, and the person is whiter than snow.

Racism still exists, and probably always will. There's no way around that. However, we've found ways around "white privilege", and things like Affirmative Action are simply not needed because of acceptance on a larger scale than non-economic social circles.

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Growing up having nothing to do with any civil rights issues, discriminatory practices, etc, I feel pretty discriminated against when there are things like Black Entertainment Television, United Negro College Fund, Ebony Magazine, Black history month, etc etc etc. Could there be White Entertainment Television? United White College Fund? I don't think so. You can't even say 'black' anymore without someone accusing you of being racist. Companies have 'diversity' policies and will hire someone over you because of their skin color. Is that not blatant discrimination?