Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?[W: 356]

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

AlabamaPaul said:

No, debate in a political forum is not trying to bait anyone to defend their opinion because it is just that, an opinion. I could sit here all night long and take the opposite side of anything you post, but it wouldn't further any serious discussion we might actually have...

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The existence of white privilege isn't an opinion; it is a fact.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

ThePlayDrive said:

I think the problem is that a lot of people are 1) unable to divorce the word "privilege" from wealth. They automatically envision white privilege to mean that all white people are living in fancy houses and never have any problems. That's not what it means. The vast majority of people in this thread who have expressed doubt that white privilege exists seem to really have ZERO idea of what the term "white privilege" even refers to.

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i never thought about that.

its obvious they are making it out to be something its not but i didnt think the reason maybe because of that association, interesting.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

ThePlayDrive said:

I think the problem is that a lot of people are unable to divorce the word "privilege" from wealth. They automatically envision white privilege to mean that all white people are living in fancy houses and never have any problems. That's not what it means. The vast majority of people in this thread who have expressed doubt that white privilege exists seem to really have ZERO idea of what the term "white privilege" even refers to.

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Hogwash, we know exactly what it means. It is no different from any other "racial" form of favoritism. The problem is you seem to think it is far more prevalent or somehow worse than any other racial favoritism. Well since it really does not matter anymore as institutionalized racism is pretty much gone, it just does not matter. Sure racism exist in people or as individuals, but that is a whole other story as racists of ALL races exist.

You also don't want to admit that MONEY overrides all that nonsense as your own links pointed out.

So no, we know what it means.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

German guy said:

As I'm not American, I don't want to comment on the situation in America in particular, but on ethnic/racial minorities in general.

When in a country, there are ethnic/racial minorities, and their average material situation such as income, education level and representation, is lower than that of the majority ethnicity/race, that of course begs for questions (assuming there is no legal discrimination, obviously). The only two reasons I can think of are that 1) they are not given equal opportunities, because the majority maintains a "privilege", or 2) something about that ethnicity/race makes them inherently incapable of achieving like the majority.

As far as I know, blacks in America have a considerably lower income and education average compared to whites. Why is that? You answer me, because I am not sure. But I don't like explanations that belong to 2), such as "blacks are genetically less intelligent/ambitious/etc". Following 2), maybe it's their culture? But what is "black culture"? Aren't African Americans exposed to the same culture as white Americans?

1) would encompass arguments such as "white privilege": Due to involuntary, non-malicious racist stereotypes, blacks are disadvantaged in a society dominated by whites. Maybe white employers are less likely to hire a qualified black than a white employee, because they have (subconscious, involuntary) prejudices. Maybe white teachers show the same prejudice towards black pupils.

Most likely, the real problem is not due to one single reason, but a mix of various of these reasons, to different degrees. So what do you think? Did I overlook something important?

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Hey German Guy, I just read and thought it was interesting.

I was having a discussion with my brother (who has spent a lot of time in Germany) about Muslims in Europe generally and how there is a huge problem of unemployment, underemployment, and Muslims living in ghetto's. I understand this is a very big problem in France and a significant problem in Germany.

He argued that the problem was with the Muslims who refused to integrate and chose to live in ghettos.

I argued that the Muslims were being discriminated against and as opposed to not assimilating, their difference were not being accepted by Germans and they were pushed to the ghettos as a result of discrimination. If this is the case, it is not disimiliar to the plight of blacks in America.

Contrasting Muslims in America with Muslims in Europe, we find that in almost every way, American Muslims are well above average. They only make about 25 of the population, but they tend make more money, have more education, longer marriages, lower debt, lower crime rates than the general population.

I believe that discrimination, especially, but not exlusively, institutional repression, has an effect on groups that is not easily corrected.

I read a study once about repression in Ireland a few decades back. The Irish Protestants were the repressors and the Irish Catholics were the repressed. The study found, among other things, that the irish Catholics had an average of 15 point lower IQ than the Irish Protestants. What is fascinating is that these people were so close genetically that they could have been close cousins, so clearly there was nothing biological about the difference, it was all the result of repression.

What do you make of the Muslim issue in Europe?

Is there a white advantage?

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

apdst said:

Libbos live in a fantasy world.

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I guess I'm not alone of making the same observation.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Objective-J said:

1.) real problem?

thats subjective as i said earlier IMO i dont htink it needs special attention more so than what we already do, freedom, rights, discrimination laws, civil rights etc

other may feel its no problem other may want more done for it :shrug:

2.) again as i said earlier bigotry, special treatment, discrimination, favoritism exists based on gender, sexuality, races, religion age, disabilities, looks etc
2a.) who knows what the exact extent is, id imagine they exist on a majority vs minority scale just like most things
3.) of course not for this subject BUT certain subjective subjects can do this
4.) no didnt say this either, people know it does because of the factual support
5.) nope again you have it wrong, the facts support it does, if you think that no instances of it exist you are just ignore reality and facts. Also i dont "want" people to believe it because i dont care if they do. Their belief doesnt impact facts.

are there any factual stories, reports that people were hired, promoted, treated special etc etc etc simply because they were white? yes therefore it exists

again like i already said like 20 times, if you want to debate how much, to what extent and when, where and why it does that's fine but denying it is denying facts :shrug:

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I am not denying anything really, it is hard to deny something that seems to defy a uniform definition. In my research of the term "white privilege" I found that the term is very subjective and misused in the aspect that it is generalized to infer racial prejudiced activity of many different types. It seems to be a catch all phrase. A way to accuse an entire race of being prejudice without truly laying blame. Most sources that I read entirely ignored other factors that are in play. There is such a thing called social sciences yet most people talking about white privilege do not use any of those methods.

Yes indeed the entire concept of white privilege is subjective enough to make me skeptical of its relevance and the need to have the term when other words already cover such social issues. Questioning that relevance in no way makes the claim that one is denying anything like what you mentioned. Another red flag that I noticed is that the term white privilege seems to be used as a derogative slam on white people in general. It makes the claim that white people are unfair and that we do not even know how unfair that we are being. I am always skeptical of something that people say that a entire race is doing but they are unable to see it. Such claims have been made about blacks time and time again. But everyone always points out how that assertion is prejudice yet when the same logic is applied to whites everyone ignores it.

The reason that people like me want the facts and the proof the methodology of how white privilege is defined is because we want things to be straight up. If there is something that can be done to avoid making people feel unwanted or worse then we need to get to the bottom of this. Not just claiming that something exists while being unable to say that its anything more than subjective.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

FreedomFromAll said:

1.)I am not denying anything really, it is hard to deny something that seems to defy a uniform definition. In my research of the term "white privilege" I found that the term is very subjective and misused in the aspect that it is generalized to infer racial prejudiced activity of many different types. It seems to be a catch all phrase.

2.) A way to accuse an entire race of being prejudice without truly laying blame. Most sources that I read entirely ignored other factors that are in play. There is such a thing called social sciences yet most people talking about white privilege do not use any of those methods.

3.)Yes indeed the entire concept of white privilege is subjective enough to make me skeptical of its relevance and the need to have the term when other words already cover such social issues. Questioning that relevance in no way makes the claim that one is denying anything like what you mentioned. Another red flag that I noticed is that the term white privilege seems to be used as a derogative slam on white people in general. It makes the claim that white people are unfair and that we do not even know how unfair that we are being. I am always skeptical of something that people say that a entire race is doing but they are unable to see it. Such claims have been made about blacks time and time again. But everyone always points out how that assertion is prejudice yet when the same logic is applied to whites everyone ignores it.

4.)The reason that people like me want the facts and the proof the methodology of how white privilege is defined is because we want things to be straight up. If there is something that can be done to avoid making people feel unwanted or worse then we need to get to the bottom of this. Not just claiming that something exists while being unable to say that its anything more than subjective.

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1.)it has a uniform definition. look up privilege, its that simple
2.) it doesnt accuse a whole race of racism, thats nonsense lol
3.) again its NOT against all white people LMAO nor does it have to do with the whole race being racist, thats is also nonsenical. You do know the majority of people in this thread that acknowledge the fact its exists are white right? Seems you are making a lot of stuff up.
4.) its not subjective, its factual and its racism :shrug:

like i said this is all you need to ask yourself:

are there any factual stories, reports that people were hired, promoted, treated special etc etc etc simply because they were white? yes therefore it exists

anything else you try to make up or add to it is on you and has nothgin to do with it factually still existing.

WHat part arent you getting?

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

CaptinSarcastic said:

Hey German Guy, I just read and thought it was interesting.

I was having a discussion with my brother (who has spent a lot of time in Germany) about Muslims in Europe generally and how there is a huge problem of unemployment, underemployment, and Muslims living in ghetto's. I understand this is a very big problem in France and a significant problem in Germany.

He argued that the problem was with the Muslims who refused to integrate and chose to live in ghettos.

I argued that the Muslims were being discriminated against and as opposed to not assimilating, their difference were not being accepted by Germans and they were pushed to the ghettos as a result of discrimination. If this is the case, it is not disimiliar to the plight of blacks in America.

Contrasting Muslims in America with Muslims in Europe, we find that in almost every way, American Muslims are well above average. They only make about 25 of the population, but they tend make more money, have more education, longer marriages, lower debt, lower crime rates than the general population.

I believe that discrimination, especially, but not exlusively, institutional repression, has an effect on groups that is not easily corrected.

I read a study once about repression in Ireland a few decades back. The Irish Protestants were the repressors and the Irish Catholics were the repressed. The study found, among other things, that the irish Catholics had an average of 15 point lower IQ than the Irish Protestants. What is fascinating is that these people were so close genetically that they could have been close cousins, so clearly there was nothing biological about the difference, it was all the result of repression.

What do you make of the Muslim issue in Europe?

Is there a white advantage?

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My guess is that it's a mix of both, concerning Muslims in Germany.

First, I think the problem is not as grave as in France, for example, and there are actually not few immigrants in Germany from Muslim countries who achieve to some extent. But there certainly is a large number of Muslim immigrants who don't, and there are problems that come with this problem.

There have been studies that found that there is indeed prejudice on the side of teachers and employers in Germany against Muslims (usually immigrants from Turkey in our case): When the application letters are absolutely identical, people with Turkish sounding names have a significantly lower chance to be invited to job interviews. The mostly public German education system has been found to advantage children from families with better education background and perpetuating the low performance of children with a low social background -- and most immigrants from Muslim countries are living in a socially bad situation. On top of that, there are many prejudices, which may or may not contain a true core, such as "Muslims are aggressive/religious fanatics/treat women bad/are terrorists/stick to their own kind" and so on, which make it difficult for those immigrants who aim at blending in to achieve that.

That's one side. On the other side, I'd say it is indeed a problem that many immigrants from Muslim countries in Germany maintain a culture that's not compatible with our way of life: Misogynist views, general intolerance towards certain minorities such as Jews or homosexuals, ideas of religious supremacy, paternalist-authoritarian attitudes and traditions. Many of these attitudes are not necessarily specifically Muslim, as many people two or three generations ago in Germany shared similar ideas. But they are clashing with today's pluralist and secular society in Germany. These attitudes are an obstacle on the side of the immigrants when it comes to integration. In extreme cases, this mutual alienation causes them to get even more radical in their views, joining religious and/or political extremist groups such as radical islamists.

A counter-reaction on the side of natives then is xenophobic extremism, such as displayed in the actions of islamophobic groups, who fuel hatred against Muslim immigrants in general, usually within far-right action groups with nationalistic and chauvinistic views.

So IMO, the problem is something both sides have to work on together, not against each other. Waging culture wars against "these evil Muslims" is only going to increase the rift on both sides and will not possibly yield any constructive solution to the problems that exist. Disarmament of hateful rejection and generalization of "the other side" is required on both sides.

As for the difference between Muslims in America and Germany, my guess is this has to do with the social background of the respective immigrants: Germany invited many Turkish people in the 70s and 80s as cheap labor. They usually came from the poorest regions of Turkey, had only few education and even less money, and were hired in Germany for the dirty works no German wanted to do. In America, on the other side, my guess is that especially highly educated people from Muslim countries, with either much money or good education, are allowed access to a Green Card or other means of permanent residence.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

German guy said:

My guess is that it's a mix of both, concerning Muslims in Germany.

First, I think the problem is not as grave as in France, for example, and there are actually not few immigrants in Germany from Muslim countries who achieve to some extent. But there certainly is a large number of Muslim immigrants who don't, and there are problems that come with this problem.

There have been studies that found that there is indeed prejudice on the side of teachers and employers in Germany against Muslims (usually immigrants from Turkey in our case): When the application letters are absolutely identical, people with Turkish sounding names have a significantly lower chance to be invited to job interviews. The mostly public German education system has been found to advantage children from families with better education background and perpetuating the low performance of children with a low social background -- and most immigrants from Muslim countries are living in a socially bad situation. On top of that, there are many prejudices, which may or may not contain a true core, such as "Muslims are aggressive/religious fanatics/treat women bad/are terrorists/stick to their own kind" and so on, which make it difficult for those immigrants who aim at blending in to achieve that.

That's one side. On the other side, I'd say it is indeed a problem that many immigrants from Muslim countries in Germany maintain a culture that's not compatible with our way of life: Misogynist views, general intolerance towards certain minorities such as Jews or homosexuals, ideas of religious supremacy, paternalist-authoritarian attitudes and traditions. Many of these attitudes are not necessarily specifically Muslim, as many people two or three generations ago in Germany shared similar ideas. But they are clashing with today's pluralist and secular society in Germany. These attitudes are an obstacle on the side of the immigrants when it comes to integration. In extreme cases, this mutual alienation causes them to get even more radical in their views, joining religious and/or political extremist groups such as radical islamists.

A counter-reaction on the side of natives then is xenophobic extremism, such as displayed in the actions of islamophobic groups, who fuel hatred against Muslim immigrants in general, usually within far-right action groups with nationalistic and chauvinistic views.

So IMO, the problem is something both sides have to work on together, not against each other. Waging culture wars against "these evil Muslims" is only going to increase the rift on both sides and will not possibly yield any constructive solution to the problems that exist. Disarmament of hateful rejection and generalization of "the other side" is required on both sides.

As for the difference between Muslims in America and Germany, my guess is this has to do with the social background of the respective immigrants: Germany invited many Turkish people in the 70s and 80s as cheap labor. They usually came from the poorest regions of Turkey, had only few education and even less money, and were hired in Germany for the dirty works no German wanted to do. In America, on the other side, my guess is that especially highly educated people from Muslim countries, with either much money or good education, are allowed access to a Green Card or other means of permanent residence.

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I think you are probably mostly correct on American Muslims, not so much that they had money, but the education in Iraq and Iran before they went crazy was very good.

On the Muslims issue, you could almost exchange the word Muslims for black and have an accurate description of race relations in this country, including (historically) the claimed for violence and especially rape.

Let's try it...

There have been studies that found that there is indeed prejudice on the side of teachers and employers in America against blacks: When the application letters are absolutely identical, people with black sounding names have a significantly lower chance to be invited to job interviews. The mostly American education system has been found to advantage children from families with better education background and perpetuating the low performance of children with a low social background -- and most blacks are living in a socially bad situation. On top of that, there are many prejudices, which may or may not contain a true core, such as "blacks are aggressive/treat women bad/are criminals/stick to their own kind" and so on, which make it difficult for those blacks who aim at blending in to achieve that.

Yup, very few alterations and it fits.

I think the sad thing is that it costs societies SO much to be repressive. American Muslims, while hated by Islamaphobes, and who have somewhat maintained their religious identities, have also assimilated into American culture. While they love their faith, most love America far more than the countries they came from BECAUSE of the freedom. The anti-Islamic groups think they want to make America like islamic countries with Sharia law when in fact they LEFT those countries because of things like Sharia Law. I believe if accepted, they may have done the same in Europe. But it is a different circumstance with so many poor Muslim laborers brought into Europe after WW2 to rebuild. In any case, judging people on anything but individual merits is an expensive bit of idiocy on the part of our societies.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

CaptinSarcastic said:

I think you are probably mostly correct on American Muslims, not so much that they had money, but the education in Iraq and Iran before they went crazy was very good.

On the Muslims issue, you could almost exchange the word Muslims for black and have an accurate description of race relations in this country, including (historically) the claimed for violence and especially rape.

Let's try it...

There have been studies that found that there is indeed prejudice on the side of teachers and employers in America against blacks: When the application letters are absolutely identical, people with black sounding names have a significantly lower chance to be invited to job interviews. The mostly American education system has been found to advantage children from families with better education background and perpetuating the low performance of children with a low social background -- and most blacks are living in a socially bad situation. On top of that, there are many prejudices, which may or may not contain a true core, such as "blacks are aggressive/treat women bad/are criminals/stick to their own kind" and so on, which make it difficult for those blacks who aim at blending in to achieve that.

Yup, very few alterations and it fits.

I think the sad thing is that it costs societies SO much to be repressive. American Muslims, while hated by Islamaphobes, and who have somewhat maintained their religious identities, have also assimilated into American culture. While they love their faith, most love America far more than the countries they came from BECAUSE of the freedom. The anti-Islamic groups think they want to make America like islamic countries with Sharia law when in fact they LEFT those countries because of things like Sharia Law. I believe if accepted, they may have done the same in Europe. But it is a different circumstance with so many poor Muslim laborers brought into Europe after WW2 to rebuild. In any case, judging people on anything but individual merits is an expensive bit of idiocy on the part of our societies.

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Just out of curiosity: Is there such a thing as "black sounding names" in America?

My guess is that much of what is often made out to be a cultural problem actually is to a larger part a social problem (concerning social situation and status). I guess if you sent thousands of low educated, deeply catholic unemployed farm laborers from the Bavarian countryside to the modern city of Istanbul, you'd probably have a similar situation, vice versa.

However, I think the cultural rift is indeed a problem. While extreme crimes such as "honor killings" or calls for Sharia law are rather the exception, the general traditional view of gender roles and family structures seems to be common among many Muslim immigrants. Probably the education system is the key: When children from such families have the opportunity to achieve, they'll soon adopt a more "German" lifestyle and attitudes.

My personal experience with these immigrants is mixed. There is one woman who is second generation from Turkey whom I consider a close friend, and several more acquaintances, co-workers and fellow students. Then there are more I meet casually on the street or at fast-food shops which they're running. In case of those I know better, they seem perfectly integrated, and the only thing that makes you recognize them as immigrants is their physical appearance. Said woman is even married to a native German husband. Another guy I met at college used to serve in the army for a couple of years and had the nickname "the Osman Prussian", which suited him well, IMO.

On the other side, you often hear from native women who are reluctant to buy at döner kebap shops, because they're used to awkward remarks and an attitude by male Turks against German women, which these women consider disgusting. It's obviously more than just a prejudice, that especially many young male immigrants don't know how to behave towards women, or at least native women (you sometimes hear they are taught in their families that women who have sex before marriage are "bitches", hence all German women are bitches, so why shouldn't you treat them like that?).

In the public sphere, the media and so on, there are a few outstanding examples of well integrated Turkish people -- politicians, journalists, a few intellectuals, comedians, actors -- but in general, I'd say they are still underrepresented, compared to their share of the population.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

PirateMk1 said:

How do you prove privledge exists emipiracally?

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Socio-economic discrepancies, bureaucratic treatment of groups, incarceration rates, wealth distribution, application of laws, etc.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

There is data that indicates various groups are treated differently by the criminal justice system, for example. Black males, as an example are more likely to be convicted by jurors (which if they did it is a good thing in my opinion) than other groups (not good if those of other groups are just as guilty). Black males are also more likely to receive harsher sentences for the same exact crimes than others. Again, little sympathy from me for criminals and im happy they're off the streets but if undeniable statistics prove society gives some more of a benefit of the doubt and more leniency than others whole in some cases others not fitting the profile of a 'decent looking guy' are looked upon more critically then we as a society might need to need to ask ourselves are we truly being fair especially if we're ever selected for jury duty or are interviewing candidates for a job, a promotion or evaluating for pay raises. I think most people really want to be fair but subconsciously we might inadvertently be less fair that we consciously realize.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Hatuey said:

Socio-economic discrepancies, bureaucratic treatment of groups, incarceration rates, wealth distribution, application of laws, etc.

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Statistical evidence correct? Well this thread could use some. If people say its there then they should be able to prove it, and provide some evidence.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

ThePlayDrive said:

2. It's easy for a white heterosexual male to say "no, there doesn't need to be an exceedingly strong endeavor to correct for white privilege," don't you think?

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I would say it is just as easy for a non-white heterosexual male to say "oh, there does indeed need to be an endeavor to correct for white privilege".





Anywho, what differentiates nowadays isn't race or even really any more gender - it's behavior. Whites who make the same good decisions see roughly the same rewards as blacks or hispanics or asians, just as whites who make the same poor decisions see roughly the same unfortunate circumstances as all the forementioned. It is simply that among our populace the poor decisions that tend to cause those things we deem "failures" at life (dropping out of school, divorce, poverty, drug abuse, etc.) tend to be more concentrated in our hispanic and black communities, and less concentrated in our white and even less concentrated in our asian communities.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Hatuey said:

Socio-economic discrepancies, bureaucratic treatment of groups, incarceration rates, wealth distribution, application of laws, etc.

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That doesn't prove privilege exists any more than I could prove that Americans are biased in favor of doctors by showing the same things.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

DA60 said:

Okaaaaay.

Well, have a nice day anyway.

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Why thank you. I love to start my days with passive aggressive niceties.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

ThePlayDrive said:

Dude, white privilege is nothing more than "flip side" of racism and discrimination against non-whites (and the consequences of both). If you believe that racism and discrimination against non-whites exist, then you believe that white privilege exists. If you don't believe that white privilege exists, then you also don't believe that racism and discrimination exist.

So, do you believe that racism and discrimination against non-whites exist? It's a simple "yes" or "no" answer.

And for specific examples of "white privilege": White privilege is not having to deal with the legacy of extreme systemic discrimination. White privilege is not having to worry that your personal failures will be seen by others as proof of significantly harmful stereotypes and a representation of your entire "race." White privilege is being able to see "yourself" dominate the media and be represented in a significantly diverse amount of roles rather than just the stereotypes of your race/ethnicity. White privilege is not having to deal with well-documented psychological effects of discrimination against non-whites. White privilege is having your history be so frequently represented in society that you don't need a month set aside to have widespread acknowledgement of it. White privilege is having a greater likelihood that your family was able to pass wealth down to you because they didn't have to deal with the discrimination that prevented them from acquiring it. White privilege is, with all things besides race being equal, you are multiple times more likely to receive a more lenient sentence than non-whites when you commit the same crime.

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Is there instances of racism? Yes. Always has been always will be, by everybody whatever they be. Is there institutional racism? No. Life isnt as simple as you make it out to be. Not by a long shot. What you describe inorder for it to exist would have to litteraly be pervasively widespread. Is there institutional dicrimination I am unsure, but most probabley not. Not in the way everybody thinks anyhow. Thats crappy move on your part by the way. Trying to box me into being a closet racsist. Really?

If your getting your stuff from Tim Wise or his ilk you might want to reconsider. I wouldnt exactly call him an expert. That guy IMHO is off his bloody rocker.

If you think there is this phenomenoa lets gets some data and crack it and see if its true. Maybe its more widespread, or a figment of your imagination. All I know is that there are very few good studies of this.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Objective-J said:

guess you should have asked for scientific then and not empirical

see post 370 youll get a hint on how to find factual evidence

it may not be what you specifically are looking for but it will show you how to find factual evidence none the less :shrug:

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Went looking for studies cant find any worth anything. You say it exists. Then prove it. Give me something to chew on. An asserataion is being stated as fact. Present the facts. Good luck with it. I went looking. Pickens are slim and not useful in much of any way. I am not going to spend my time trying to prove YOUR sides case. Show me the money.

By the way you apperently dont get the part were empiracal data is part of the scientific method. Observations are made and measured and catalouged.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Smeagol said:

There is data that indicates various groups are treated differently by the criminal justice system, for example. Black males, as an example are more likely to be convicted by jurors (which if they did it is a good thing in my opinion) than other groups (not good if those of other groups are just as guilty). Black males are also more likely to receive harsher sentences for the same exact crimes than others. Again, little sympathy from me for criminals and im happy they're off the streets but if undeniable statistics prove society gives some more of a benefit of the doubt and more leniency than others whole in some cases others not fitting the profile of a 'decent looking guy' are looked upon more critically then we as a society might need to need to ask ourselves are we truly being fair especially if we're ever selected for jury duty or are interviewing candidates for a job, a promotion or evaluating for pay raises. I think most people really want to be fair but subconsciously we might inadvertently be less fair that we consciously realize.

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The problem when looking at data is determining if we really are looking at like kinds of data. In order for data to have usefulness especially when trying to tease out something that may be subtle we have to make sure we are examining it in as fine of detail as we can.

For instance when looking at doctors. There are all kinds of doctors. There are general practitioners, neurologists and everything in between. All of who are paid very differently for their very varied skill sets. We have to make sure we are at least comparing apples. Data that is TOO broad cannot be used to determine fine details.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

PirateMk1 said:

Went looking for studies cant find any worth anything. You say it exists. Then prove it. Give me something to chew on. An asserataion is being stated as fact. Present the facts. Good luck with it. I went looking. Pickens are slim and not useful in much of any way. I am not going to spend my time trying to prove YOUR sides case. Show me the money.

By the way you apperently dont get the part were empiracal data is part of the scientific method. Observations are made and measured and catalouged.

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oh i get that its PART of it but they are factually DIFFERENT and empirical proof has already been given and thats a fact but NOW you want scientific proof which i clearly stated i dont have nor do i think anybody posted any. What else is factual is that it doesnt matter since its not needed LMAO

didnt ask you to look for studies did i? LMAO
i told you what to do, if you choose to ignore it thats on you, facts dont care about your opinion or your disbelief.

this is all you need to ask yourself

"are there any factual stories, reports that people were hired, promoted, treated special etc etc etc simply because they were white?"

the answer is yes therefore it exists, research this and youll have all the proof that is needed for its existence, its that simple.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

ChezC3 said:

The term "white privilege" is a racist one. Its only motive is to make white people feel guilty about being white. To hate themselves for being white. To expect people to take on the burden of guilt for actions and deeds that most not only had no part in, but quite probably were fellow victims is appalling.

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I didn't vote because I think it should have included "wealth privilege" and related that to the "white" nature of that demographic group. I noted "black" privilege when I was a student about 10 years agos. I've noted "women" privilege on some jobs. I just considered these to be pendulum effects associated with social corrections and, although they were personal, did not take them personally.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

PirateMk1 said:

Is there instances of racism? Yes. Always has been always will be, by everybody whatever they be. Is there institutional racism? No. Life isnt as simple as you make it out to be. Not by a long shot. What you describe inorder for it to exist would have to litteraly be pervasively widespread. Is there institutional dicrimination I am unsure, but most probabley not. Not in the way everybody thinks anyhow. Thats crappy move on your part by the way. Trying to box me into being a closet racsist. Really?

If your getting your stuff from Tim Wise or his ilk you might want to reconsider. I wouldnt exactly call him an expert. That guy IMHO is off his bloody rocker.

If you think there is this phenomenoa lets gets some data and crack it and see if its true. Maybe its more widespread, or a figment of your imagination. All I know is that there are very few good studies of this.

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Dude, I provided ample studies on this and there are hundreds more. If you looked at the studies I provided and if you've done even more research and you've found little evidence of white privilege, then it's safe to say that you are being willfully ignorant.

And LOL at you saying I tried to "box you in as a closest racist". I literally have no idea how you came to that conclusion, but I suspect it's from the same distorted thought process that led you to believe I'm arguing that "life is simple."

It's pretty clear that you aren't coming at this topic from a place of reason and, as I told another poster, since I can't work with that, this will be my last response to you. I do hope, however, that you will become aware of whatever psychological block may be preventing you from examining this topic honest and that, when you are ready, you will re-examine the well-documented, well-researched phenomenon that we are talking about.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Objective-J said:

oh i get that its PART of it but they are factually DIFFERENT and empirical proof has already been given and thats a fact but NOW you want scientific proof which i clearly stated i dont have nor do i think anybody posted any. What else is factual is that it doesnt matter since its not needed LMAO

didnt ask you to look for studies did i? LMAO
i told you what to do, if you choose to ignore it thats on you, facts dont care about your opinion or your disbelief.

this is all you need to ask yourself

"are there any factual stories, reports that people were hired, promoted, treated special etc etc etc simply because they were white?"

the answer is yes therefore it exists, research this and youll have all the proof that is needed for its existence, its that simple.

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Emperical proof has not been given, in fact NO proof has been given. Wheres the documentation to back it up? Someones opinion of what happen to them is not fact. Stories are NOT fact. This topic has been around for some time. You would think there would have been studies on it. I am asking for data. I am asking for PROOF. No proof, no facts, just supossition of your OPINION. Prove your asseration. Prove there is white privaledge. Not racisim, white priveledge. Theres a big difference. The more I look the more I think you got NO case. Where's the lawsuits? Wheres the the studies? Wheres the data proving your point. You have brought to the table NOTHING.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

PirateMk1 said:

You have brought to the table NOTHING.

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Did you expect different? There is a pattern of behavior going on here, if you haven't noticed.


In any event, no, I voted with the majority here, that this nonsensical identity politics movement is a steaming crock of warmed over turd. Conceptually, it is bankrupt. It as, as someone else put it, the race card by another name.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

DaveFagan said:

I didn't vote because I think it should have included "wealth privilege" and related that to the "white" nature of that demographic group. I noted "black" privilege when I was a student about 10 years agos. I've noted "women" privilege on some jobs. I just considered these to be pendulum effects associated with social corrections and, although they were personal, did not take them personally.

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I view the entire concept as what Nietzsche described to be "slave morality".., I'll have no part in it...