Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?[W: 356]

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Graffias said:

"White privilege (or white skin privilege) refers to what some individuals perceive as advantages that white people enjoy in certain societies beyond those commonly experienced by people of color in the same social, political, or economic spaces (nation, community, workplace, income, etc). The controversial term connotes both obvious and less obvious unspoken advantages that white individuals may not recognize they have. These include cultural affirmations of one's own worth; greater presumed social status; and freedom to move, buy, work, play, and speak freely. The concept of white privilege also implies the right to assume the universality of one's own experiences, marking others as different or exceptional while perceiving oneself as normal. It can be compared and/or combined with the concept of male privilege. Does this still exist? If so, should it be corrected and fought against?

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As I'm not American, I don't want to comment on the situation in America in particular, but on ethnic/racial minorities in general.

When in a country, there are ethnic/racial minorities, and their average material situation such as income, education level and representation, is lower than that of the majority ethnicity/race, that of course begs for questions (assuming there is no legal discrimination, obviously). The only two reasons I can think of are that 1) they are not given equal opportunities, because the majority maintains a "privilege", or 2) something about that ethnicity/race makes them inherently incapable of achieving like the majority.

As far as I know, blacks in America have a considerably lower income and education average compared to whites. Why is that? You answer me, because I am not sure. But I don't like explanations that belong to 2), such as "blacks are genetically less intelligent/ambitious/etc". Following 2), maybe it's their culture? But what is "black culture"? Aren't African Americans exposed to the same culture as white Americans?

1) would encompass arguments such as "white privilege": Due to involuntary, non-malicious racist stereotypes, blacks are disadvantaged in a society dominated by whites. Maybe white employers are less likely to hire a qualified black than a white employee, because they have (subconscious, involuntary) prejudices. Maybe white teachers show the same prejudice towards black pupils.

Most likely, the real problem is not due to one single reason, but a mix of various of these reasons, to different degrees. So what do you think? Did I overlook something important?

Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

CLAX1911 said:

I know this will probably not go over well, mainly because it's the truth.

black people are poorly represented, rappers that objectify women and talk about money as if that's the only thing is in this world. black children grow up with these role models and believe it that's how they should act. the stereotype is perpetuated by the entertainment industry but only because the demand for that kind of thuggery is there.

Asians are portrayed as intelligent and ambitious, so really it's asian people who have the cultural advantage.

the only fix is the culture has to change, if this pissed you off then you're happy with the culture you live in.

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It is also pretty hard truth psychologically speaking. They have done studies on this. Environmental impact is huge. A woman did an experiment on her students back in the 60s or 70s about students with blonde hair blue eyes being less valuable. Them reversed it. It is pretty interesting stuff:

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

German guy said:

1) they are not given equal opportunities, because the majority maintains a "privilege"

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That's definitely not true. They are given endless opportunities, in fact even more than whites. The higher your income is, the less chance you have to get grants, and the less money you have. If you come from destitution, so many grants, scholarships, etc. exist for you that it's not even funny. The problem is that blacks are not being told this, and they want to maintain that college is for "rich folks".

That is on them.

2) something about that ethnicity/race makes them inherently incapable of achieving like the majority.

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Affirmative Action exists to not just give them equal opportunity in workplaces and other locations, but to give them advantages over whites of equal and even higher intelligence and merit. This is why we have a term in America called a "token". However, many of them don't want even this, because black culture tells them that they're Uncle Toms, or that earned success is selling out or the result of "being white".

That is on them.

As far as I know, blacks in America have a considerably lower income and education average compared to whites. Why is that? You answer me, because I am not sure. But I don't like explanations that belong to 2), such as "blacks are genetically less intelligent/ambitious/etc". Following 2), maybe it's their culture? But what is "black culture"? Aren't African Americans exposed to the same culture as white Americans?

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Not proper white Americans, just our gutter trash. They have lower income and education average, but it's not from lack of opportunity. It's from lack of effort. It's not specifically because "blacks are genetically less intelligent". I mean, you could argue that, but I'm not going to. There is nothing physiologically about the African-American brain that dictates them unable to succeed on their own.

You want a hint of black culture? They have terms like "Uncle Tom" - it's essentially a black man that black culture views as a white sympathizer if they do not hate him and abandon a culture of self-deprecation and excuse. If you succeed through the system, you're a "sellout". If you speak coherently and distinctly, you're "talking white". I'm not making this up; this is almost universal among what we perceive as black culture in America.

That is on them.

1) would encompass arguments such as "white privilege": Due to involuntary, non-malicious racist stereotypes, blacks are disadvantaged in a society dominated by whites. Maybe white employers are less likely to hire a qualified black than a white employee, because they have (subconscious, involuntary) prejudices. Maybe white teachers show the same prejudice towards black pupils.

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It's definitely possible, but in today's America it is MUCH less likely to happen than decades ago.

Most likely, the real problem is not due to one single reason, but a mix of various of these reasons, to different degrees. So what do you think? Did I overlook something important?

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Plenty. Essentially, it's on them.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Gipper said:

I go to college and apply for scholarships...oops, not this one, that's for blacks. Not that one, it's for women. Not that one either...Hispanics. Oops, another black scholarship.

I go take a civil service exam. Wow I got a 97. Aw crap, LaShequah got an 84...plus 10 for being black...plus 10 for being a woman. Well, I can apply somewhere else.

I'll go apply for another job. Hmm...seems okay. Wait, you mean you get a tax break for employing that person over there, even though not as qualified? Well damn.

You must have blinders on to how the world works, "wise" one.

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Did you specifically have all these experiences? As in, did you personally have all of these experiences? Were you somehow held back because of your skin color, are you not somewhere that you feel you could have been today if you were black?

I don't disagree that race based qualifications are a silly out dated thing, but a lot of people who talk about how its unfair because of their skin color have never actually experienced real discrimination.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Wiseone said:

Did you specifically have all these experiences? As in, did you personally have all of these experiences? Were you somehow held back because of your skin color, are you not somewhere that you feel you could have been today if you were black?

I don't disagree that race based qualifications are a silly out dated thing, but a lot of people who talk about how its unfair because of their skin color have never actually experienced real discrimination.

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Sure, why not. Maybe I wanted to apply to the Jamal Ogundabulpadekabobo Business Scholarship and was upset that I couldn't. Maybe I was discouraged from taking the civil service exam because I knew LaWanda could wake up, come in, and beat my score through gifts. Maybe there was a job I didn't get because they needed to "color up" the 4th floor and not look like they were an old money country club.

All could've easily happened to me, sure.

Are you saying that if a black kid grew up in the suburbs and didn't get lynched, spit on, and hung from a noose, then racism doesn't exist? After all, he never experienced anything of the sort.

I hope you realize how much you're looking like a fool right now.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Gipper said:

Sure, why not. Maybe I wanted to apply to the Jamal Ogundabulpadekabobo Business Scholarship and was upset that I couldn't. Maybe I was discouraged from taking the civil service exam because I knew LaWanda could wake up, come in, and beat my score through gifts. Maybe there was a job I didn't get because they needed to "color up" the 4th floor and not look like they were an old money country club.

All could've easily happened to me, sure.

Are you saying that if a black kid grew up in the suburbs and didn't get lynched, spit on, and hung from a noose, then racism doesn't exist? After all, he never experienced anything of the sort.

I hope you realize how much you're looking like a fool right now.

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Ok ya maybe it happened, but did it happen to you? Simple question, why don't you answer it? Did you ever not get a job because you were white, or not get into the school of your choice because of it? I already said that I agree race based qualifications are silly, that applies to things like scholarships, jobs, college applications, etc, so you aren't going to get me to defend those because I don't agree with them. I just want to know if the person complaining about all this has ever been a victim of it.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

German guy said:

As I'm not American, I don't want to comment on the situation in America in particular, but on ethnic/racial minorities in general.

When in a country, there are ethnic/racial minorities, and their average material situation such as income, education level and representation, is lower than that of the majority ethnicity/race, that of course begs for questions (assuming there is no legal discrimination, obviously). The only two reasons I can think of are that 1) they are not given equal opportunities, because the majority maintains a "privilege", or 2) something about that ethnicity/race makes them inherently incapable of achieving like the majority.

As far as I know, blacks in America have a considerably lower income and education average compared to whites. Why is that? You answer me, because I am not sure. But I don't like explanations that belong to 2), such as "blacks are genetically less intelligent/ambitious/etc". Following 2), maybe it's their culture? But what is "black culture"? Aren't African Americans exposed to the same culture as white Americans?

1) would encompass arguments such as "white privilege": Due to involuntary, non-malicious racist stereotypes, blacks are disadvantaged in a society dominated by whites. Maybe white employers are less likely to hire a qualified black than a white employee, because they have (subconscious, involuntary) prejudices. Maybe white teachers show the same prejudice towards black pupils.

Most likely, the real problem is not due to one single reason, but a mix of various of these reasons, to different degrees. So what do you think? Did I overlook something important?

Click to expand...

I would loosely define "white privilege" as racist stereotypes, historically divergent living standards (being from slaves/people persecuted vs. a higher although not always high white living standard), current cultural differences.

Some "white privilege" still exists definitely, but not nearly as much as it used to be.
Most to nearly all blacks in the US are not former slaves and many have not lived through blatant legal segregation/descrimination.
However, recovering from such things can be a slow process and if can definitely be felt today, to some degree (lower income, lower education, etc.)

With all that, Black culture, has somewhat developed into eschewing Blacks from acting like Whites.
"Acting White" can be getting good grades/academic achievement, not abiding by the Black pop culture and dress standards (music, low hanging pants, tattoos, gangs), having a "White" job, things like that.
Acting "White" in a Black community can end in physical and mental abuse.
There is also de facto segregation and single parent households, the latter which is huge.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Gipper said:

I go to college and apply for scholarships...oops, not this one, that's for blacks. Not that one, it's for women. Not that one either...Hispanics. Oops, another black scholarship.

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This post is so ignorant. A white man applying for scholarships is not "disadvantaged" by scholarships for blacks, women and whoever else. Those scholarships are there to give blacks, women, etc. a chance to compete with white men - to compete with the advantage that being a white male has historically held in society.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

celticwar17 said:

I think it exists in some kind of fashion. Nowadays it's starting to be a disadvantage due to all the minority only opportunities and laws.

[...]

If the reason of giving minorities extra opportunities is because they are more poor on average, whynot give those opportunities to ALL poor? YOU are literally valuing human beings higher than others.

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1. "Minority only opportunities" are there to help minorities compete with white males. Such opportunities do not mean that whites are at a disadvantage. It means that white men are now getting more competition.

2. Every non-privileged group is given "extra opportunities". In other words, every non-privileged group is targeted by scholarships, etc.. For example, relative to class, poor people are the most disadvantaged. As a result, there are plenty of scholarships that target, as you suggest, ALL poor people. Similarly, relative to race, black people are disadvantaged. As a result, there are plenty of scholarships that target black people. To say that one disadvantaged group (poor people) should be targeted but not another group (black people) is nonsensical.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Of course it does. "Stop and frisk", need i say more?

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Harry Guerrilla said:

I'm not saying money doesn't talk, it certainly does.
I'm just relating my experience with moving out of my "where I grew up area" to a completely different and largely unfamiliar rural setting.
The community I moved to, is heavily reliant on the "who you know" system.

I've been here for 8 or 9 years and really just started making head way.

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I understand completely. It's just that I constantly become soured by the sudden shift in people's attitudes and personalities once they find out what I'm worth. First it started with bitches using me to get to my family's money, and then it got worse when I received a cut. You think you can trust someone, and then you find out that you can't fully trust anyone. Even close friends will conspire against you, just because of some zeroes on a bank statement. Haters hate, but they get over it after you pay them for their goods and services.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

ThePlayDrive said:

1. "Minority only opportunities" are there to help minorities compete with white males. Such opportunities do not mean that whites are at a disadvantage. It means that white men are now getting more competition.

2. Every non-privileged group is given "extra opportunities". In other words, every non-privileged group is targeted by scholarships, etc.. For example, relative to class, poor people are the most disadvantaged. As a result, there are plenty of scholarships that target, as you suggest, ALL poor people. Similarly, relative to race, black people are disadvantaged. As a result, there are plenty of scholarships that target black people. To say that one disadvantaged group (poor people) should be targeted but not another group (black people) is nonsensical.

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To me this simply sounds racist...

It's okay to target poor people, but it's not okay to target black people...

define "black"

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Surtr said:

I understand completely. It's just that I constantly become soured by the sudden shift in people's attitudes and personalities once they find out what I'm worth. First it started with bitches using me to get to my family's money, and then it got worse when I received a cut. You think you can trust someone, and then you find out that you can't fully trust anyone. Even close friends will conspire against you, just because of some zeroes on a bank statement. Haters hate, but they get over it after you pay them for their goods and services.

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Things I've learned is that letting people know your net worth or income, is not good, especially if you have/make more than they do.
I'm probably poor compared to you, however, within my group I'm "better off" and some people try to take advantage of that.

Just gotta learn to say no.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Can't answer the poll. Yes, white privilege absolutely exists. And no, it's not something we should fight.

Not because it's right that white privilege exists, but because it's going to persist as long as racial groups are treated as naturally occurring separations within the nation, opposing forces struggling to obtain the same resources. White privilege is going to exist as long as white people exist... and the only way to abolish that is to recognize that there is no fundamental difference between white people and non-white people.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Harry Guerrilla said:

Things I've learned is that letting people know your net worth or income, is not good, especially if you have/make more than they do.
I'm probably poor compared to you, however, within my group I'm "better off" and some people try to take advantage of that.

Just gotta learn to say no.

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Wrath of a woman+curse of money= perpetual headache

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

There is no such thing as white privilege in todays world and hasn't been for decades.
it's an entirely made up concept by mentally inept people who look at the world and draw stupid arbitrary conclusions. Now the problem is that a great deal of stupid people actually buy into those stupid, arbitrary conclusions and then they promote, stupidly, as their condition is. Why?

Because not recognizing this mystical thing like white privilege means that you have to recognize the tough realities of life and that you sleep in the bed you make yourself.

The white trash lives just as bad as any other person of any other race that is in the financial pithole. And a rich black man lives just a well as a rich white man.
And if you can have poor people of each race and rich people of each race, then the only, the only, logical, sane conclusion is that there is no such thing as white privilege. The CEO of bloody Xerox and Mcdonalds are both black. One of them is even a woman. So that blows the whole gender bias out the window too. It is an entirely made up concept drawn by looking at small pictures, ignoring reality and the big picture for the purpose of appealing to the mentally inept.

And i don't care who gets offended by this. It is the truth.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

I know of nothing else but white privilege that can explain the continued existence of the Republican party.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Rainman05 said:

And if you can have poor people of each race and rich people of each race, then the only, the only, logical, sane conclusion is that there is no such thing as white privilege. The CEO of bloody Xerox and Mcdonalds are both black. One of them is even a woman. So that blows the whole gender bias out the window too. It is an entirely made up concept drawn by looking at small pictures, ignoring reality and the big picture for the purpose of appealing to the mentally inept.

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I don't really know if I think there is "white privilege" or not. It's hard to quantify something like that. But I absolutely disagree with your conclusion here. Having successful people and unsuccessful people of each group does not prove there is no such thing as white privilege. Pointing to one example of a successful black person or an unsuccessful white person absolutely does not negate the idea that in general white people have an inherent advantage in society. Again, I don't know if I believe that's the case, but pointing out one or two CEO's of color and declaring that conclusively proves "white privilege" doesn't exist seems ridiculous to me.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Gipper said:

Are you kidding? If anything, I'm at a DISadvantage today as a white male.

Revoke Affirmative Action and actually judge men by the content of their character and not the color of their skin. And quit giving women everything they want.

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Riiiiight.

That's why 'white' men make about 40% more then women and about 25-30% more then 'black' men...because they have it soooo rough.



Personal income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Fiddytree said:

Yes, but it is complicated, and no, I don't see being white as a disadvantage.

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It IS complicated and I think you described it well, being white is not a disadvantage.

If there were only white people in America, there could of course be no "white advantage", and any advantage comes not from something as simple as people giving you stuff because you are white, but comes from the disadvantage that people of color face.

There are a lot of elements to it, but consider the people posting here now, the people who think that minorities have a real advantage. Now multiply this opinion by a hundred million or so. How does that impact minorities?

The government efforts to remove inequities of the past don't come close to mitigating 100 million people who just don't like minorities who they think are taking their stuff, jobs, tax dollars, women, etc.

Add on the long term affects of institutional racism, and there is absolute disadvantage for minorities, so the converse is a white advantage.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

DA60 said:

Riiiiight.

That's why 'white' men make about 40% more then women and about 25-30% more then 'black' men...because they have it soooo rough.



Personal income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Maybe unsuccessful white people need someone to blame other than their own failures?

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Depends on what part of the country we're talking about. In areas that are predominantly black there is definitely black privilege, same with hispanic. Whatever the dominant culture is, usually has the privilege. Not that "white" is a culture, I just mean that people tend to be more trusting and favorable to people who look like them.

People who live in a mono-ethnic place tend to feel uncomfortable with differences. It's a basic human fact. If everyone is busy conforming and are ignorant of other people who might be different than them, they will usually side with what's familiar.

Is there systemic racism? Yes, I think there is. It's not always conscious though. It's not like the majority are out there maligning against non-whites. It's something that is more built into them from how they were raised by their community and the media.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

If the other races are primarily supported in some fashion by whites, supported in terms of the whites having built the historical and traditional cultural infrastructure, schools, courts, judicial systems, constitutions, charters, fought the wars, safety nets, law enforcement, defense systems and all major technological advances, all of which white people have done in the United States, then white people should enjoy the privilege of those who actually produce.

When the other races are able to hold out those achievements, then they deserve some sort of "privilege" rather than their presently demanded pulpit for constant complaining as encouraged by their leader, Obama.

Look at the Mexicans in the United States, they simply arrived in overwhelming numbers and assumed all systems built by others and demanded support by others. All other immigrant races, including Asians, represent some variant of that truth. The majority of blacks simply refuse to integrate or advance their civilization. Political correctness demands that those who observe these truths be deemed bigots and racists, however nothing could be further from accurate.

To even start a thread such as this is an accusation of whites by those who hope to provoke "Hate Whitey" racial attacks. These are your true bigots.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

CaptinSarcastic said:

Maybe unsuccessful white people need someone to blame other than their own failures?

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My thoughts exactly.

Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

Yes there is white privilege, it's fairly obvious. There is also male privilege, hetero privilege, cis-gendered privilege, and yes they do exist. Apart of the privilege is not seeing that there is a privilege, because one is shielded from the negative aspects because of said privilege.