View Poll Results: Does "white privilege exist"?

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  • Yes, and it is a problem we should fight to fix.

    34 35.42%
  • Yes, but it is not an issue. Whites should have first privilege in nations they built.

    4 4.17%
  • No, white privilege does not exist

    58 60.42%
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Thread: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?[W: 356]

  1. #121
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    Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    No it doesn't. where on Earth did you get that silly idea from. Bias indicates a preference exists. Assumptions do not have to be made with a preference in one direction or another. Please do not make **** up and pretend it to be true.



    That is what they had in common, though. The vast majority occurred in the poorest neighborhoods. What is it that you think they had in common, if it is not the fact that they occurred in the poorest neighborhoods?
    I KNOW the vast majority involve gangs and drugs and in the VAST majority of cases in Chicago's 526 or so murders and 2600 shootings were not only perpetrated by but impacted minorities. I also knew without a doubt you would avoid that reality like the plague.

  2. #122
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    Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, it exists to a certain degree in so much as the notion of "white" is the generalized "default". This isn't inherently a "bad" or "evil" thing but rather a typical cultural human thing. Go into an area where the predominent race is asian and there will be asian privledge. Go into an area where the predominent race is black and there will be black privledge. This is because human nature says that whatever is the most common thing one experiences on a routine basis will be what's set to "default" in ones head unless there's some other strong factor to alter that.
    Not so sure about this. I've done a lot of travelling and thanks to European empire I think white privilege is pretty widespread. In Asia you have cosmetics and moisturizers with bleach in them to make people more white looking, advertisements that incorporate foriegners (implying that the product is so great that even white people approve), and a general sense that white people are more beautiful, wealthy, successful, etc. I found it the same in Latin America and India. In general you are either treated like some sort of celebrity or people leave you alone. I have never experienced outright hatred for being white except for in the United States where we have such an extreme history of "active" racism (as you call it) that the divide still exists today. I have never been anywhere else where the color of my skin can so deeply affect the perception of what I say, as in America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin
    And by and large, the later has happened. However, as the amount of active privledge reduces so to does the amount of active combative actions need to decrease as well lest you create a situation of blowback. There comes a time where people believe there is a fight and battle going on largely because you're still telling them they need to be fighting and battling...and for no other reason.

    We're not entirely to a point where all forms of corrective action needs to be removed or ended. There's still teaching needing to be done and there's still some who seek and push for an active notion of it. But that point moves ever closer, but is stifled by the refusal by many to realistically acknolwedge it nor the progress that's been made.
    I realize you're trying to be diplomatic about it but your post does come across as having a tinge of a victory to it. Yes, we got over the most obvious forms of racism, but it still lingers in other ways that are just as damaging. The media, the justice system, the employment sector... they all play a role. And yes, there is internalized racism too. I think black and hispanic communities have unfortunately self-reinforced the image that legitimate success is like being an uncle tom and a traitor to your community. The media doesn't help with that image either - B.E.T. is probably the worst example.

    It's hard to declare victory though where there are still active racists at large and who are very vocal. Not to mention, the fact that we're talking about race at all means that racism and privilege are still a problem. In a society that is supportive and accepting of everyone, I do believe it's possible to be truly colour blind... but it has to be close to ideal, otherwise human nature of divisionalism will take over. Just don't give biology too much credit. Nurture plays a bigger role here.

  3. #123
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    Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Couldn't disagree more.

    First of all, America is considered to be the "melting pot", so if that rings true, there really can't be a dominant culture.
    Calling it a melting pot hasn't made it one, though. It's a stew. Always has been.

    Also, what is considered "white culture"? Country music? CNN? Coca-Cola? NASCAR?
    Yes. All of the above are a part of white culture. Wearing suits/certain styles of dress clothing to work, having certain haridos, saying words a certain way, using certain terminology, individualism, the nuclear family, etc etc.

    The problem is that people here do not think they have a culture, when they do. That causes them to be even more oblivious to white privilege than they would be if they were not oblivious to their own culture (part of it is just a matter of being ignorant about what culture is).

    Rap isn't any more or less a part of "black culture" than the blues are. Country music is not any more or less a part of white culture than Heavy Metal is. They are both equally a part of white culture. There are also things which are part of both white and black American culture equally, such as football, and somethings which are more a part of one over the other, but are still a part of both (basketball vs. Baseball, for example).

    We're not simply talking about components, though. There are entire paradigms which differentiate white American culture from other American cultures.

    White culture seems to change constantly, as it will occasionally integrate what is considered another culture into its ranks.
    All cultures change over time, but white culture is not much different now than it was in the 70's and 80's. It might have some different components now than it did then, but it's very much the same in all of the meaningful ways. People still dress according to a certain style, people still have fairly nuclear families with paternal tendencies (rather than the extended, maternal families you see in the far more collectivist African-American culture).



    It really doesn't have a key identifying factor. Now if you said "malt liquor and menthols" or "posses and pregnant teens", you know what they represent. What identity does white culture have?
    Suits, rugged individualism, date rape, microbrews, fraternities, Gronkowski... all a part of white culture.

    Second, America does pretty good in balance between commerce and multiculturalism.
    By maintaining a dominant culture which holds on to power.

    We don't let it run free like Europe does - and thank God. Look at the more multicultural nations in Europe and see what kinds of troubles they have. In America, the most important color is green. In addition, with the names reference Tucker gave, there's really nothing that says a name that could pass for a Zulu village is indicative of a white person. I've seen some names with 5 or 6 vowels in them, and the person is whiter than snow.
    But even when a white person has something typically associated with black culture it has negative ramifications for them. For example, if a white guy "sounds black" when he speaks, he will receive the same detriments that the black person would experience for the same thing, if not more detriments.


    Racism still exists, and probably always will. There's no way around that. However, we've found ways around "white privilege", and things like Affirmative Action are simply not needed because of acceptance on a larger scale than non-economic social circles.
    There's your problem right there. Affirmative action was not enacted to counter white privilege, it was enacted to counter the institutionalized racism which was present throughout American society. It doesn't do much to affect white privilege, though.

    White privilege exists. This is not a value statement, it's a statement of fact. It is unaffected by your disagreement, as all facts are. Just because something is part of "white" culture or "black" culture does not mean that all people who are white or black will identify with that particular component, or cannot identify with a component in the "other" culture, or even the other culture altogether.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I KNOW the vast majority involve gangs and drugs and in the VAST majority of cases in Chicago's 526 or so murders and 2600 shootings were not only perpetrated by but impacted minorities.
    So? Surely you aren't trying to say that being a minority causes one to commit or become the victim of a crime?

    I also knew without a doubt you would avoid that reality like the plague.
    What "reality" am I avoiding? The facts are as follows: The crimes occurred in the poorest neighborhoods in Chicago. The poorest neighborhoods in Chicago are almost entirely populated by minorities. The causal factor for the crime, though, is socio-economic, not racial.

    How, exactly, do you think that those facts help your argument against the existence of white privilege?
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  5. #125
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    Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Calling it a melting pot hasn't made it one, though. It's a stew. Always has been.
    Still a conglomerate of ingredients and flavors though.

    Yes. All of the above are a part of white culture. Wearing suits/certain styles of dress clothing to work, having certain haridos, saying words a certain way, using certain terminology, individualism, the nuclear family, etc etc.
    So white culture is...professionalism? Stability? That really speaks to other cultures if that specifically describes whites.

    The problem is that people here do not think they have a culture, when they do. That causes them to be even more oblivious to white privilege than they would be if they were not oblivious to their own culture (part of it is just a matter of being ignorant about what culture is).
    Then I'm oblivious.

    Rap isn't any more or less a part of "black culture" than the blues are. Country music is not any more or less a part of white culture than Heavy Metal is. They are both equally a part of white culture. There are also things which are part of both white and black American culture equally, such as football, and somethings which are more a part of one over the other, but are still a part of both (basketball vs. Baseball, for example).

    We're not simply talking about components, though. There are entire paradigms which differentiate white American culture from other American cultures.
    That pretty much hits upon what I suggested earlier - that "white culture" is essentially a huge blend. If rap isn't considered specifically part of black culture anymore, it must be because white people have adopted it, at least in part. It's a cornucopia these days.

    All cultures change over time, but white culture is not much different now than it was in the 70's and 80's. It might have some different components now than it did then, but it's very much the same in all of the meaningful ways. People still dress according to a certain style, people still have fairly nuclear families with paternal tendencies (rather than the extended, maternal families you see in the far more collectivist African-American culture).

    Suits, rugged individualism, date rape, microbrews, fraternities, Gronkowski... all a part of white culture.
    Kinda hoping that was a joke.

    But even when a white person has something typically associated with black culture it has negative ramifications for them. For example, if a white guy "sounds black" when he speaks, he will receive the same detriments that the black person would experience for the same thing, if not more detriments.
    As he should be, as it's not a reflection of "sounding black", but "sounding uneducated". It's the same thing in reverse - black people are considered to be "talking white" if they use proper inflection, grammar, subtext...and use 3 syllables in "ignorant". They're not talking white - they're talking proper. Blacks themselves use "black" as a negative and "white" as a positive, purely from an academic or intellectual standpoint. Do whites really need to bend over backwards to tell them that they can achieve the American dream too?

    There's your problem right there. Affirmative action was not enacted to counter white privilege, it was enacted to counter the institutionalized racism which was present throughout American society. It doesn't do much to affect white privilege, though.

    White privilege exists. This is not a value statement, it's a statement of fact. It is unaffected by your disagreement, as all facts are. Just because something is part of "white" culture or "black" culture does not mean that all people who are white or black will identify with that particular component, or cannot identify with a component in the "other" culture, or even the other culture altogether.
    I know that Affirmative Action had positive intentions, but these days it has negative applications - not in and of itself, but because legislation keeps getting heaped upon it that unevens the playing field on the side of employers. This is why words like "token" exist - because we have to hire not based on merit, but because of some sort of governmental "boogeyman" that says we need X and Y, even if it's a detriment.

  6. #126
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    Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

    If this guy had 'White Privilege' then I'm pretty sure it's not a benefit.
    Attached Images Attached Images Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?[W: 356]-white-privilege-jpg 
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    Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I was speaking of areas in a larger sense, similar on scale to the United States rather than going to a micro level of neighborhoods. That said, I would say some aspects of "privledges" does exist in those things, specifically in terms of the notion of "default status". It's funny, your attempts at grasping onto exceptions in those instances mirror those who attempt to do so on the other side on a national level.
    I don't know what you mean by "grasping onto exceptions." I don't consider anything that I referenced to be an "exception." I consider those things to be "the rule." I consider what you wrote to be exceptions. That was, in part, my point.

    I think that's a pretty ingenious debate tactic there...immedietely belittle the opinion of a pocket of people who disagree with you based on their race. I don't believe it's any easier for a white heterosexual male to say than it is for a non-white, non-heterosexual, or non-male to say the opposite. Unlike you, I don't belittle their opinion due to that.
    Nope, not a debate tactic at all. It's easier for people to say that there don't need to be extreme efforts to solve problems that don't adversely affect them. Because you are a white heterosexual male, it's easier for you to dismiss "strong endeavors" to fix inequality that doesn't have a significant impact on you. Whether you want to admit or not, who and what we are (race, gender, nationality, class, sexuality, etc.) forms much of our experience and, in turn, much of our worldview. I was hoping that you might take an honest look at how your race (and gender and sexuality) may be affecting your perception of this, but instead you just dismiss the potential that who and what you are might be limiting your perspective.

    Culture has changed. That's not speaking from bias, but from casual observation. The successively younger generation tends to have a more neutral outlook in terms of race and exhibit less, and less severe, acts of active or even passive institutionalized prejudice. Is it all gone? Absolutely not. Notice I even stated such in my post. But our society is well beyond the levels of the 40's or 50's, and even the 80's and 90's, especially when you look at the generational pockets which came into adulthood during the later decades. Is it progressed to where it ultimatley needs to go? But then again, my actual POST never suggested that.
    You should read my post again. I specifically said that culture has changed, that discrimination is lower and that we've made progress. I did not take issue with your claim that culture has changed. I took issue with the extent to which you argued it has changed.

    Good thing I stated "There comes a time" suggesting that said time has no arrived yet. Perhaps you should read peoples posts rather than seeing a general stance and immedietely making assumptions and stereotypes of what they think in such a prejudice manner.
    I read your post quite well, actually, but I appreciate your concern. Within the context of your post, it looked to me like you were talking about the present. Since you weren't, it was basic miscommunication (which I attribute to your lack of clarity where you attribute it to my lack of reading). In any case, it happens. /shrug

    Which I never said. There's a difference between acknowledging it and acknowleding it in a realistic manner. I agree, few acknolwedge that progress has been made. I believe that a far larger number however don't acknowledge the amount and level of progress has been made because doing so does not suit the political agenda.
    Like I said, there are few people who don't acknowledge "the amount and level of progress that has been made." I don't why you replied to me by saying, "I never said that" because you just said it again. Are you really criticizing my comment because I didn't include the adjective "realistically" in my response. If so, then "realistically" was implied in my criticism of your argument. I figured that was obvious given. /shrug

    It seems to me that you're taking issue with people who don't acknowledge the amount and level of progress that you think has been made which is separate from the progress that has actually been made. By that I mean, considering the language you've chosen in your posts to describe cultural change, I think you've overestimated the progress that has been made.

    Question: What, in your opinion, is "the amount and level of progress that has been made" that a large number of people refuse to acknowledge?

    Like many movements...from the Civil Rights to the Tea Party...they are political in nature and are leveraged for that reason, typically starting with good intentions but also realizing that losing any amount of zeal, emotion, or severity lessens the power of said movement. And thus, the fires must be stoked as if every past success is both momentous AND irrelevant in terms of the problem being faced. This is an unrealistic acknowledgement of the situation in my mind. You don't believe my criticisms are relevant; that's fair, that's your right. However, with the whole sale stereotyping and blatant prejudice you've displayed in your post by routinely stereotyping me out of a bigoted connotation that seemingly all those who believe a particular view point must hold certain beliefs and views, forgive me if I don't believe much of what you post or state is relevant to me either.
    "Bigoted"? Huh. Like I said before, our worldviews are determined, in part, by who and what we are which includes our race, gender, sex, sexuality, nationality and other factors. You, as a white heterosexual male, are more able to be unaware of the realities that primarily affect non-white, etc. people simply because you don't often have direct experience with many of the things they face because their race, gender, etc.. For me to say that isn't "bigotry" or anything of the sort. It's a simple fact, period. Now, this doesn't mean that you can't be informed - there are plenty of white heterosexual males that are informed. However, your posts lead me to believe that you aren't.

    On the same note, you know what I've noticed, the group of people who tend to get upset the MOST when others say the race, gender, sexuality, et al. may impact one's perception of things like white privilege, sexism, discrimination, etc. is white heterosexual Christian males. Women, non-whites, gay people and the like are, on average, rarely upset about that argument. Why do you think that is? And try not answer that question from an emotional place even though it's a question that deals with an emotional topic.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 02-20-13 at 05:14 PM.

  8. #128
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    Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Still a conglomerate of ingredients and flavors though.
    Yet, one can easily be the dominant one.



    So white culture is...professionalism?
    No, white culture defines what it is that you consider to be "professionalism". "Professionalism" is not an objective term.

    Stability?
    Again, white culture has defined what you consider to be "stability".

    That really speaks to other cultures if that specifically describes whites.
    Except that you failed to realize that you were using subjective terms as though they were objective ones. That assumption is an excellent example of white privilege. You might consider one thing to be "professional" while it is deemed exceptionally unprofessional in another culture. Shaking a client's hand, for example. You might consider th enuclear family to be "stability" but someone from a collectivist culture with ancestor worship would consider it extremely unstable.

    The fact that white people ignorantly assume that their concepts are universal is, of course, white privilege in action.





    Then I'm oblivious.
    Of course. That much was obvious.



    That pretty much hits upon what I suggested earlier - that "white culture" is essentially a huge blend.
    So is black culture. There are often more differences within cultures than there are between them.

    If rap isn't considered specifically part of black culture anymore, it must be because white people have adopted it, at least in part.
    It is considered a part of black culture. It doesn't define black culture, though.


    Kinda hoping that was a joke.
    No more or less than the teen pregnancy comment was.



    As he should be, as it's not a reflection of "sounding black", but "sounding uneducated".
    Why do you get to define what "sounding uneducated" means? Why is it that using a black dialect makes someone sound "uneducated" to you?


    It's the same thing in reverse - black people are considered to be "talking white" if they use proper inflection, grammar, subtext...and use 3 syllables in "ignorant".
    First of all, white Americans of all education levels use improper inflection, grammar, and subtext all the time. Ask a brit. You define it as "proper" because it is what the dominant culture (i.e. white culture) has decided is "proper", not because it is objectively proper.

    Blacks themselves use "black" as a negative and "white" as a positive, purely from an academic or intellectual standpoint.
    White privilege in action. When people begin to actually think their cultural norms are bad, and that the other cultures norms are good, it doesn't get anymore pervasive than that. Especialy when those norms are entirely arbitrary.

    Do whites really need to bend over backwards to tell them that they can achieve the American dream too?
    Who's saying white people should do anything for blacks? I know I'm not. I'm talking about being aware of reality and recognizing the existance of white privilige, nothign more. no need to pretend that being aware counts as bending over backwards.

    I know that Affirmative Action had positive intentions, but these days it has negative applications - not in and of itself, but because legislation keeps getting heaped upon it that unevens the playing field on the side of employers. This is why words like "token" exist - because we have to hire not based on merit, but because of some sort of governmental "boogeyman" that says we need X and Y, even if it's a detriment.
    What you don't seem to be aware of, though, is that affirmative action is a red herring in a discussion about the existence of white privilege.
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  9. #129
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    Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker
    No, white culture defines what it is that you consider to be "professionalism". "Professionalism" is not an objective term.

    Again, white culture has defined what you consider to be "stability".
    Professionalism might be subjective, but perception of it isn't. Do you think if you went into a court where a black man was presiding, you'd be okay if you had on a "do rag", or a Mexican judge would allow a bandanna? Also, do you think one parent and multiple kids is stable? That's not even remotely subjective.

    Why do you get to define what "sounding uneducated" means? Why is it that using a black dialect makes someone sound "uneducated" to you?
    Oh God, you're not one of those people who thinks ebonics is a real language, are you? It's not a dialect, it's not jargon, to an extent it's not even about slang. I'm talking about the fact that a lack of knowledge in a subject is "ignit". I'm talking about "you are" being replaced with "you is". I'm talking about a number of other things that is intentionally done to deviate from proper English, because that would make you some sort of Uncle Tom. Dialect? Who are you trying to kid?

    First of all, white Americans of all education levels use improper inflection, grammar, and subtext all the time. Ask a brit. You define it as "proper" because it is what the dominant culture (i.e. white culture) has decided is "proper", not because it is objectively proper.
    I'm sure that there are plenty of grammatical errors that even educated people can succumb to, but many are obscure. A damned first grader knows how to use the proper helping verb.

    Who's saying white people should do anything for blacks? I know I'm not. I'm talking about being aware of reality and recognizing the existance of white privilige, nothign more. no need to pretend that being aware counts as bending over backwards.
    Very well, I guess you're right. I suppose that the next time I have an interview with an employer who graduated from Grambling State, I'll pull my pants down to show off my asscrack, fist-bump him and greet him with "Sup". If that's cultural bias, you can have it. I'll stick with what you call "white privilege".

  10. #130
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    Re: Does "white privilege" exist? If so, should it be corrected?

    Gender, Age, Race/Ethnicity
    Among all sheltered individuals over the course of a year (October 2009-September 2010)
    iii
    :
    62% were male
    • 38% were female
    • 21.8% are under age 18
    • 23.5% are 18-30
    • 37% are 31 to 50
    • 14.9% are 51 to 61
    • 2.8% are 62 or older
    41.6% are White, Non-Hispanic
    9.7% are White, Hispanic
    • 37% are Black/African-American
    • 4.5% are other single races;
    • 7.2% are multiple races


    http://homeless.samhsa.gov/ResourceF..._factsheet.pdf

    Homelessness Resource Center

    These numbers show that White males are the predominant population that is homeless in the US. But there are plenty of racists in any race. No race is innocent.

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