Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?[W: 207]

Gonzo Rodeo · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

sangha said:
Pistol grips allow a better grip on the weapon, make it easier to fire with one hand, thus allowing better manueverability on the part of the shooter.

That's why all competition trap and skeet shooters use them, right? I mean, they have to rapidly and accurately adjust their aim, so they all use pistol grips. Right?

Barrel shrouds help the shooter from being injured from the heat of a gun that has been repeatedly fired in a short time

You've obviously never fired a gun. ONE round heats up the barrel. And there is no reason to grab a rifle by the barrel in any circumstance, whether that be hunting or combat.

Also, 8 lbs is too heavy for a one-handed shot. Again, you would know this if you had ever fired one.

maquiscat · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

ttwtt78640 said:
The military version, the 1994 AWB version or the 2013 AWB version? Please inform us of your "official" definition including what makes it official.

I called up the FBI office and then they sent me an email with the following:

James.Eppard@ic.fbi.gov said:
For definitions of assault weapons, see the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, commonly known as the Federal Assault Weapons Ban.

If that is the official definition for the FBI then I'm sure that it's pretty damn official.

sangha said:
Pistol grips allow a better grip on the weapon, make it easier to fire with one hand, thus allowing better manueverability on the part of the shooter.

Barrel shrouds help the shooter from being injured from the heat of a gun that has been repeatedly fired in a short time

Gonzo Rodeo already addressed those in post #124. Next.

CLAX1911 · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

maquiscat said:
The problem with your argument is that there is a legal definition of an assault weapon that is not the same as a weapon used in an assault. Now if you want to argue that such a label is bogus and should be removed from the argument, then by all means please make that thread. But that is not what your OP is about. Or maybe more to the point, your OP wasn't what you wanted it to be.

You came in to this claiming that you know what an assalt weapon is. The common misconception that ordinary rifles are assault weapons is a flawed colloquialism. I was using that flawed colloquialism.

I just was preventing you from improperly defining the flaw. knowledge based on ignorance isn't knowledge. Just arrested your misinformation.

sangha · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

Gonzo Rodeo said:
That's why all competition trap and skeet shooters use them, right? I mean, they have to rapidly and accurately adjust their aim, so they all use pistol grips. Right?

I said nothing about pistol grips improving the rate of fire.

You've obviously never fired a gun. ONE round heats up the barrel. And there is no reason to grab a rifle by the barrel in any circumstance, whether that be hunting or combat.

Also, 8 lbs is too heavy for a one-handed shot. Again, you would know this if you had ever fired one.

And additional rounds heat itup even more. More importantly, repeated fire means the barrel *stays* hot.

If the shooter only intends on shooting one bullet, then a shroud is irrelevant. But, as is the case in some recent incidents, the shooter intends to engage in prolonged period of shooting people, the shroud can be of assistance to the shooter.

And rifles with pistols grips can be fired with one hand

Pistol grips also make it easier to place the operating controls ergonomically, making it easier to release the magazine while keeping ones finger on the trigger, which can be helpful to someone who intends to shoot a lot of people. It can also make it easier to switch fire modes.

Omgitsme · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

sangha said:
Pistol grips allow a better grip on the weapon, make it easier to fire with one hand, thus allowing better manueverability on the part of the shooter.

Barrel shrouds help the shooter from being injured from the heat of a gun that has been repeatedly fired in a short time

Pistol grips dont make firing a rifle one handed easier. You still wont hit ****. Really the only thing I think they are good for is if you need to aim in on a target for a long period of time they are more comfortable to me but I dont ever have to aim in on a target long enough to where a pistol grip is useful.

Gloves also help protect the shooter from the heat of a gun.

CLAX1911 · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

sangha said:
Nope. It's just a weapon

No, it's an assault weapon, precisely it was an assault weapon for a moment. A blunt object isn't a weapon, it can be, but it is what ever it is, it was used as an assault or even murder weapon.

Remember how you were wrong about what manufacturing and cosmetic meant, you're just as wrong here.

maquiscat · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

CLAX1911 said:
You came in to this claiming that you know what an assalt weapon is. The common misconception that ordinary rifles are assault weapons is a flawed colloquialism. I was using that flawed colloquialism.

I just was preventing you from improperly defining the flaw. knowledge based on ignorance isn't knowledge. Just arrested your misinformation.

Come again? I came in claiming that the term "assault weapon" includes pistols within it's definitions. When coupled with your OP question, "Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?" I am pointing out that pistols are already within the definition of assault weapons. Now if you really need me to make it clearer, here you go....

Your question should be "Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than their 'non-assault' rifle, pistol and shotgun counterparts?"

Is that a better and more clear response to your flawed premise OP?

Omgitsme · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

sangha said:
And rifles with pistols grips can be fired with one hand

Pistol grips also make it easier to place the operating controls ergonomically, making it easier to release the magazine while keeping ones finger on the trigger, which can be helpful to someone who intends to shoot a lot of people. It can also make it easier to switch fire modes.

Yes they can be fired one handed but so can rifles without pistol grips. Either way you really arnt going to hit much.

If you are going to go on a shooting spree why exactly would you worry about putting your weapon on safe at all? Why wouldnt you just keep it on fire? And I disagree with the idea that pistol grips make it easier to release the magazine and to switch from safe to fire. It just depends on how the weapon is designed. For example the AK47 has a pistol grip and in order to switch firing modes you have to take one of your hands (most commonly the hand on the pistol grip) to take the weapon off safe. And if you have ever tried doing a speed reload with an AK47 you would realize that it isnt easy at all despite the fact that it has a pistol grip.

CLAX1911 · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

sangha said:
Couldn't find any where they referred to the object as "assault weapon" or "weapon of assault"

Okay, that isn't the entire case.

Lets put it this way, if a police officer or a lawyer was to say, "what was the assault weapon" most people would know what was meant. If you want to play your silly head games because you think you are the grammar police, or you can't stand conversation, or you wish to cover up your inability to form an argument, or what ever reason, you go on and do that. But you are not part of this conversation because you're too persnickety to hold a conversation.

sangha · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

Omgitsme said:
Yes they can be fired one handed but so can rifles without pistol grips. Either way you really arnt going to hit much.

If you are going to go on a shooting spree why exactly would you worry about putting your weapon on safe at all? Why wouldnt you just keep it on fire? And I disagree with the idea that pistol grips make it easier to release the magazine and to switch from safe to fire. It just depends on how the weapon is designed. For example the AK47 has a pistol grip and in order to switch firing modes you have to take one of your hands (most commonly the hand on the pistol grip) to take the weapon off safe. And if you have ever tried doing a speed reload with an AK47 you would realize that it isnt easy at all despite the fact that it has a pistol grip.

Well, we seem to have some disagreement here. One says that these weapons can't be fired one-handed, while you say they can

And while they can be fired one handed, a pistol grip makes doing so eaier and more accurate.

Also, I said nothing about putting the safety on. I did mention releasing the magazine, which is something a mass shooter might have do while killing a lot of people.

CLAX1911 · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

maquiscat said:
Come again? I came in claiming that the term "assault weapon" includes pistols within it's definitions. When coupled with your OP question, "Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?" I am pointing out that pistols are already within the definition of assault weapons. Now if you really need me to make it clearer, here you go....

Your question should be "Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than their 'non-assault' rifle, pistol and shotgun counterparts?"

Is that a better and more clear response to your flawed premise OP?

I am sick of playing these head games. everybody else seems to understand the question. go play grammar police with someone who cares.

CLAX1911 · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

maquiscat said:
Come again? I came in claiming that the term "assault weapon" includes pistols within it's definitions. When coupled with your OP question, "Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?" I am pointing out that pistols are already within the definition of assault weapons. Now if you really need me to make it clearer, here you go....

Your question should be "Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than their 'non-assault' rifle, pistol and shotgun counterparts?"

Is that a better and more clear response to your flawed premise OP?

most weapons used in assault are not "assault weapons" (I am not going to Wright this repeatedly because you want to pretend to be stupid) meaning guns referred to as assault weapons based in the criteria of the proposed "assault weapons" ban.

Most weapons used in assault are not "assault weapons". So the ban is only designed to steal rights. It makes no sense from a safety standpoint

Omgitsme · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

sangha said:
Well, we seem to have some disagreement here. One says that these weapons can't be fired one-handed, while you say they can

And while they can be fired one handed, a pistol grip makes doing so eaier and more accurate.

Also, I said nothing about putting the safety on. I did mention releasing the magazine, which is something a mass shooter might have do while killing a lot of people.

They can be fired one handed but you wont hit anything. Ive tried it before with both a weapon with a pistol grip and a weapon without one and they were both impossible to hit anything with. So no it doesnt make it any easier with a pistol grip and I dont understand why you would even try firing a weapon one handed if you wanted to actually hit your target which I would assume if your firing a weapon at someone you do intend to hit your target.

You said a pistol grip makes it easier to switch firing modes. On civilian weapons the only firing modes are safe and fire. So when you said that it makes it easier to switch firing modes the only thing you could have possibly been talking about is taking the weapon off of safe and onto fire.

And pistol grips dont make it easier to release the magazine at all.

CLAX1911 · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

sangha said:
Well, we seem to have some disagreement here. One says that these weapons can't be fired one-handed, while you say they can

And while they can be fired one handed, a pistol grip makes doing so eaier and more accurate.

Also, I said nothing about putting the safety on. I did mention releasing the magazine, which is something a mass shooter might have do while killing a lot of people.

No gun can be fired more accurately one handed. A pistol grip is for comfort only. Pistol grip doesn't mean stock free, most shotguns and bolt action rifles have pistol grips even connected to a stock. You want to play word games, play this one.

I can shoot any gun one handed, wrist grip, thumb hole grip, peg grip, or pistol grip, all you really need is to jerk your finger back on the little trigger mechanism. It doesn't even need a grip.

sangha · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

Omgitsme said:
They can be fired one handed but you wont hit anything. Ive tried it before with both a weapon with a pistol grip and a weapon without one and they were both impossible to hit anything with. So no it doesnt make it any easier with a pistol grip and I dont understand why you would even try firing a weapon one handed if you wanted to actually hit your target which I would assume if your firing a weapon at someone you do intend to hit your target.

You said a pistol grip makes it easier to switch firing modes. On civilian weapons the only firing modes are safe and fire. So when you said that it makes it easier to switch firing modes the only thing you could have possibly been talking about is taking the weapon off of safe and onto fire.

And pistol grips dont make it easier to release the magazine at all.

I am not the only person who thinks a rifle can (and in some circumstances *should*) be fired with one hand

One-Handed Shooting - Officer.com

CLAX1911 · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

Omgitsme said:
They can be fired one handed but you wont hit anything. Ive tried it before with both a weapon with a pistol grip and a weapon without one and they were both impossible to hit anything with. So no it doesnt make it any easier with a pistol grip and I dont understand why you would even try firing a weapon one handed if you wanted to actually hit your target which I would assume if your firing a weapon at someone you do intend to hit your target.

You said a pistol grip makes it easier to switch firing modes. On civilian weapons the only firing modes are safe and fire. So when you said that it makes it easier to switch firing modes the only thing you could have possibly been talking about is taking the weapon off of safe and onto fire.

And pistol grips dont make it easier to release the magazine at all.

He doesn't even have a clue what he is talking about. Most guns have pistol grips.

CLAX1911 · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

maquiscat said:
The problem with your argument is that there is a legal definition of an assault weapon that is not the same as a weapon used in an assault. Now if you want to argue that such a label is bogus and should be removed from the argument, then by all means please make that thread. But that is not what your OP is about. Or maybe more to the point, your OP wasn't what you wanted it to be.

assault weapon is a colloquialism, and it's a phrase not term, it's 2 terms. it only means something because our culture says it does, the phrase is really meaningless, . I keep getting this crap from the word police, and you don't even know how to use your words. it means what it means. take it up with American people if you don't like it, or whoever improperly coined that phrase.

if the phrase assault weapon has nothing to do with the cartridge, barrel, action, or mechanism, all weapons are assault weapons. I can get it extended magazine for any gun I want.

maquiscat · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

CLAX1911 said:
most weapons used in assault are not "assault weapons" (I am not going to Wright this repeatedly because you want to pretend to be stupid) meaning guns referred to as assault weapons based in the criteria of the proposed "assault weapons" ban.

Most weapons used in assault are not "assault weapons". So the ban is only designed to steal rights. It makes no sense from a safety standpoint

You, sir are the one playing the word games if you are going to start a thread about assault weapons and then change the definition to be any weapon used in an assault. This is why I am pointing out that you started with a false premise.

Here let me clear things up even more:

per the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act of 1994; the FBI's official definition of assault weapons according the the FBI itself as I showed above:

b) DEFINITION OF SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPON- Section 921(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means--

`(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms, known as--

`(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
`(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
`(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
`(iv) Colt AR-15;
`(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
`(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
`(vii) Steyr AUG;
`(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
`(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;

`(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
`(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
`(iii) a bayonet mount;
`(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
`(v) a grenade launcher;

`(C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--

`(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
`(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
`(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
`(iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and
`(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; and

`(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
`(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
`(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
`(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.'.

Even if you go with your definition of an assault weapon being a weapon that is used in an assault then your OP still contradicts itself. So I ask again. Are you talking about assault weapons or just assault rifles?

Omgitsme · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

sangha said:
I am not the only person who thinks a rifle can (and in some circumstances *should*) be fired with one hand

One-Handed Shooting - Officer.com

Why did you ignore the rest of my post and only focus on one small part? Especially the part where I said a pistol grip doesnt make it any easier to shoot one handed. And hell while we are at it why are you so concerned about shooting one handed when in most situations you are never going to need to shoot one handed?

Edit: Oh and that article seems to be talking about pistols and not rifles so im not even sure how it exactly applies to what we are talking about.

maquiscat · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

CLAX1911 said:
assault weapon is a colloquialism, and it's a phrase not term, it's 2 terms. it only means something because our culture says it does, the phrase is really meaningless, . I keep getting this crap from the word police, and you don't even know how to use your words. it means what it means. take it up with American people if you don't like it, or whoever improperly coined that phrase.

if the phrase assault weapon has nothing to do with the cartridge, barrel, action, or mechanism, all weapons are assault weapons. I can get it extended magazine for any gun I want.

It's been given legal definition so it does mean something. And I just provided that legal definition.

maquiscat · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

I was going to say something but decided that it would be a bit trollish and would give Clax ideas.

CLAX1911 · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

maquiscat said:
...text removed because its meaningless

Even if you go with your definition of an assault weapon being a weapon that is used in an assault then your OP still contradicts itself. So I ask again. Are you talking about assault weapons or just assault rifles?

If you don't like it, stop posting.

CLAX1911 · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

maquiscat said:
I was going to say something but decided that it would be a bit trollish and would give Clax ideas.

I think you should exercise that restraint permanently

AlabamaPaul · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

CLAX1911 said:
I think you should exercise that restraint permanently

You are being trolled whether the poster will admit it or not...

sangha · Feb 19, 2013

Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

Omgitsme said:
Why did you ignore the rest of my post and only focus on one small part? Especially the part where I said a pistol grip doesnt make it any easier to shoot one handed. And hell while we are at it why are you so concerned about shooting one handed when in most situations you are never going to need to shoot one handed?

Edit: Oh and that article seems to be talking about pistols and not rifles so im not even sure how it exactly applies to what we are talking about.

I ignored what I thought was irrelevant, such as

"They can be fired one handed but you wont hit anything. Ive tried it before with both a weapon with a pistol grip and a weapon without one and they were both impossible to hit anything with. So no it doesnt make it any easier with a pistol grip and I dont understand why you would even try firing a weapon one handed if you wanted to actually hit your target which I would assume if your firing a weapon at someone you do intend to hit your target."

because your anecdotal experience firing one handed is irrelevant. It proves nothing other than your own capabilities (or lack thereof).

I posted the link because it shows that one handed firing is both possible and useful in some circumstances.

You may find yourself having to shoot with one hand for a number of reasons. You may be carrying something that can't be dropped, say, a flashlight. Or you may be trying to rescue someone, like a wounded partner. Or you may be using the other hand to open doors or maneuver through or around obstacles. Or, maybe you've been injured or wounded. Whatever the cause, it does happen and it happens often enough that to avoid training in one-handed shooting and gun manipulation is a serious mistake.

And one handed shooting is relevant to a discussion that includes mass shooting because they often move about the location, opening doors as they proceed. Having one hand free, while having the other ready to fire is useful for someone planning to move around and shoot many people.

And the link discusses shooting a rifle with one hand

A classic example of the sudden need for injury-induced, one-handed shooting can be found on a horrible April day in Miami in 1986. When the now-infamous FBI Miami shootout began, Special Agent Edmundo Mireles was one of eight agents who found themselves in that life-and-death struggle with two professional criminals, Michael Platt and William Matix. As Mireles was maneuvering to deploy his Remington 870 pump action shotgun, he was hit in the left forearm by a .223 bullet fired by Platt. Mireles later described his suddenly useless left arm as looking like it was "turned inside out." From that point on, with the gun battle raging around him, Ed Mireles managed to fire all of the rounds from his shotgun at Platt and Matix, achieving several non-fatal hits. In spite of the fact that he had never received any training in operating the shotgun one-handed, Mireles, now seated on the pavement with his back against a car bumper, improvised. He braced the butt of the gun against the ground between his knees to work the action, and then balanced it on the bumper of the car to fire

Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?[W: 207]

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