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Thread: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?[W: 207]

  1. #341
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You do have a point about the "music is evil" crowd, but it does seem a bit tenous. Even at the height of their power, they never came close to banning any music, nevermind musical instruments. But I do get your point

    As far as the "flaws" in my argument, since I've never said that rifles with those "elements" should be banned, explaining why they should not be banned does nothing to refute anything I've said. All I've said is that those claiming that these features are cosmetic or have no function are, at best, misinformed.

    I think people have agreed that many being discussed do have some functional usage - depending on the firearm and what it is.

    That, then, leads to the relevant question of is it a "bad" function? Thumbstocks and pistol grips - some firearms - adds accuracy. Thus, the question is should laws be passed to reduce gun accuracy?

    "Muzzlebrakes" on some firearms (not all) reduce barrel lift and recoil - either 1.) to allow a second accurate shot faster and/or 2.) so that very high caliber hunting rifles - all are bolt action - can even be used.

    Again, is accurate shooting undesirable? Should big game hunting essentially be made illegal?

    What also is not understood is circumstantially the military has different standards. For example, while you would think the military would prefer lighter weight rifles since soldiers already have to carry so much, historically the military preferred heavier rifles. It is easier to hold a heavier rifle (to a point) more steady and there is less relative recoil for faster shooting. However, the civilian models of those same calibers are generally much lighter weight.
    Being lighter weight they are easier to carry, somewhat more concealable and it possible to carry more bullets, but rapid firing will reduce accuracy.

    So, then should civilian rifles be heavier or lighter weight? Reducing weight is what is popular - except in big game guns - although lighter weight reduces control and accuracy. So which way should the government "regulate" the weight of firearms?

    On handguns, getting lighter and lighter weight via plastics and alloys is the hot trend. BUT rapidly shooting a lightweight handgun for accuracy is all but impossible. On the other hand, for big caliber small guns, manufacturers have gone heavier because the lighter weight versions of decades ago could severely damage the shooter's hand.

    In gun regulation proposals, there are calls for establishing maximum weight of handguns - for example - althought lighter weight is more concealable and easily snuck into places. So is limiting weight of handguns make them LESS usable for mass killing or murder, or make them more usable?

    What is bothersome is that I think the people actually making these legal decisions don't know much about firearms in detail.

  2. #342
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Thanks for the clarification
    The pistol grip became very popular for inexpensive home defense shotguns - since shotguns are urged by both anti-gun people (such as Biden) and pro-gun people for those who know little about firearms and have little skill. A pistol stock allows a shotgun to be short enough (but still longer than the minimum length) to be practical in a home interior setting. It's hard to swing a 38 inch long shotgun in a house with 36 inch doors nor easy to put away out of sight or securely.

    After probably 10 million such home defense shotguns sold - anti-gun folks who urged such shotguns now wants them all declared illegal - and anyone who doesn't give it up should go to prison for years.

    You probably notice that pro-gun rights folks don't believe anything anti-gun people say is their agenda or goals, because what they say they want and then pursue and do in law is rarely the same and often diametrically opposite.

    As an example, MANY anti-gun rights people has stated on this forum AS FACT "don't panick, they will grandfather what you already have" - saying this at the same time EVERY state that is proposing banning firearms do NOT grandfather anything - so it is just more lies.

    The lack of credibility also makes compromise or even debate basically impossible because pro-gun rights folks have ever reason to not believe anything anti-gun folks say or propose.

  3. #343
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I agree and disagree. Lots of the LIVs, and others who don't really think about this issue until the media bombards them with a story like Newtown,-you are probably right about them

    as to people like Schumer, Brady, Feinstein, Obama and Biden I disagree. They know better but have an agenda that has nothing to do with crime control or an honest belief that stuff with a pistol grip or a flash hider is too dangerous.
    The solution to LIV is public education and information instead of digging in heels and spreading paranoia, which only confirms the beliefs that gun owners are crazy.

    And as far as politicians go, there's a lot of exploitation of emotion on both sides of the issue. What do you expect from politicians.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #344
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I think people have agreed that many being discussed do have some functional usage - depending on the firearm and what it is.

    That, then, leads to the relevant question of is it a "bad" function? Thumbstocks and pistol grips - some firearms - adds accuracy. Thus, the question is should laws be passed to reduce gun accuracy?

    "Muzzlebrakes" on some firearms (not all) reduce barrel lift and recoil - either 1.) to allow a second accurate shot faster and/or 2.) so that very high caliber hunting rifles - all are bolt action - can even be used.

    Again, is accurate shooting undesirable? Should big game hunting essentially be made illegal?

    What also is not understood is circumstantially the military has different standards. For example, while you would think the military would prefer lighter weight rifles since soldiers already have to carry so much, historically the military preferred heavier rifles. It is easier to hold a heavier rifle (to a point) more steady and there is less relative recoil for faster shooting. However, the civilian models of those same calibers are generally much lighter weight.
    Being lighter weight they are easier to carry, somewhat more concealable and it possible to carry more bullets, but rapid firing will reduce accuracy.

    So, then should civilian rifles be heavier or lighter weight? Reducing weight is what is popular - except in big game guns - although lighter weight reduces control and accuracy. So which way should the government "regulate" the weight of firearms?

    On handguns, getting lighter and lighter weight via plastics and alloys is the hot trend. BUT rapidly shooting a lightweight handgun for accuracy is all but impossible. On the other hand, for big caliber small guns, manufacturers have gone heavier because the lighter weight versions of decades ago could severely damage the shooter's hand.

    In gun regulation proposals, there are calls for establishing maximum weight of handguns - for example - althought lighter weight is more concealable and easily snuck into places. So is limiting weight of handguns make them LESS usable for mass killing or murder, or make them more usable?

    What is bothersome is that I think the people actually making these legal decisions don't know much about firearms in detail.
    All gppd points, which is why I think the people who know the most about guns (ie gun owners) should speak soberly and informatively about these issues instead of screaming about gun grabbers and the evil federal govt. That only feeds into the misperception that many already have about gun owners, and makes them more likely to succeed
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #345
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The pistol grip became very popular for inexpensive home defense shotguns - since shotguns are urged by both anti-gun people (such as Biden) and pro-gun people for those who know little about firearms and have little skill. A pistol stock allows a shotgun to be short enough (but still longer than the minimum length) to be practical in a home interior setting. It's hard to swing a 38 inch long shotgun in a house with 36 inch doors nor easy to put away out of sight or securely.

    After probably 10 million such home defense shotguns sold - anti-gun folks who urged such shotguns now wants them all declared illegal - and anyone who doesn't give it up should go to prison for years.

    You probably notice that pro-gun rights folks don't believe anything anti-gun people say is their agenda or goals, because what they say they want and then pursue and do in law is rarely the same and often diametrically opposite.

    As an example, MANY anti-gun rights people has stated on this forum AS FACT "don't panick, they will grandfather what you already have" - saying this at the same time EVERY state that is proposing banning firearms do NOT grandfather anything - so it is just more lies.o=

    The lack of credibility also makes compromise or even debate basically impossible because pro-gun rights folks have ever reason to not believe anything anti-gun folks say or propose.
    Both sides have given the other reasons to distrust them, but that doesn't stop you from speaking rationally and unemotionally about the issue. Yet, you often choose to discuss this issue in a manner far from rational or unemotional.

    Physician, heal thyself
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #346
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The solution to LIV is public education and information instead of digging in heels and spreading paranoia, which only confirms the beliefs that gun owners are crazy.

    And as far as politicians go, there's a lot of exploitation of emotion on both sides of the issue. What do you expect from politicians.

    that's true but those who want to rape our rights based on false claims of promoting public safety are far far worse

    there is no denying that deliberate lies and dishonesty are far more prevalent from the gun banners

    Biden's recent sewage is criminally idiotic



  7. #347
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that's true but those who want to rape our rights based on false claims of promoting public safety are far far worse

    there is no denying that deliberate lies and dishonesty are far more prevalent from the gun banners

    Biden's recent sewage is criminally idiotic
    Do I really need to say how your "they do it too" argument sounds?

    For someone who knows so much about guns, you certainly chose one of the weakest ways to counter. I know you can do better.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #348
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Do I really need to say how your "they do it too" argument sounds?

    For someone who knows so much about guns, you certainly chose one of the weakest ways to counter. I know you can do better.
    I would suggest that if you are upset with dishonesty you should focus your efforts on the most egregious cases

    what I do is make accurate statements and leave others to try to do the same



  9. #349
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I would suggest that if you are upset with dishonesty you should focus your efforts on the most egregious cases

    what I do is make accurate statements and leave others to try to do the same
    And if you are upset at the prospect of legislation that palces additional limits on gun ownership you should focus your efforts on making effective arguments.

    "They do it too" is not that.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #350
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And if you are upset at the prospect of legislation that palces additional limits on gun ownership you should focus your efforts on making effective arguments.

    "They do it too" is not that.
    since this forum does not likely include politicians who matter, I would note that some arguments are designed to convince-or at least plausibly threaten (remember Congressman what happened to the last guy in this district who voted for gun bans-he's no longer in office)

    other people are just tools of the gun control movement and are best used as examples



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