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Thread: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?[W: 207]

  1. #331
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    I believe that this is the crux of the contention between you and the others and that is proving that the grip actually provides more stabilization. And for that matter, with you yourself having noted that the pistol grip may provide less increase to the dangerousness of the rifle than other features, how little of an improvement to said increase of stability would it take before you discount it? a 1% improvement? .1%?, .01%? And with that, can you show what the improvement amount to the stability of a rifle is with a pistol grip over a non-pistol grip. Just one particular rifle is all I'm asking, no need to go through the entire list, although multiple examples would be nice should you find them together.

    Now so far I've not really been in on the pistol grip/features argument portion, so at this point I'm not arguing if you are right or wrong. I'm simply asking you to prove your point.
    Yes, that is the crux of the disagreement. As far as how much of a difference it makes, I have not made any assertions, so I have nothing to prove. My point being that if these features do make a difference, then it is dishonest for some people to claim that they don't make any difference, or are purely cosmetic.
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    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Last night, I was told that I'm old, so I appreciate your humoring me

    I can understand why you think "it doesn't matter" how dangerous something is, but it would seem that many disagree, including many who are opposed to further restictions. After all, they're the ones who are arguing that these features should not be banned because they are not dangerous. The obvious implication is that if they are dangerous, then they should/can be banned. After all, if it didn't matter they would argue as you just did and say "It doesn't matter"
    I don't know if this will matter to our conversation, but I have a short personal story:

    When I was 13 I wanted a set of decorative samurai swords for my room. These were the cheap mall knock-offs, not genuine heirlooms. My father was fine with the idea, but my stepmother had a quasi-violent reaction to the mere suggestion of a weapon in 'her' home. I never got the swords, in fact that next week she grounded me for 2 months just for having a knife in my room (I was in to model aircraft and had broken the exact-o-knife I normally used, so I was making due with a stake knife from the kitchen). My stepmother said that by having that knife in my room, I was hording weapons to kill her.

    Fast-forward to last weekend, I took my step-mother shooting for the first time in her life. though she is a 'new gun-owner' (which infers more than simply the amount of time she's owned a gun), she is working past her feelings of intimidation when someone has any kind of weapon or implement around her. She loves shooting her rifle and is in the market for a 357mag revolver for concealed carry.

  3. #333
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Actually it is not a unrealistic comparison. MANY PEOPLE believe that violence is some music leads to violence - from Charles Mason to the Rolling Stones to rap and rage music about cop killing songs. And they could say "EVERY ONE OF THOSE SONGS USES A 6 STRING GUITAR!" Therefore, we should outlaw guitars and similar instruments with more than 5 strings.

    There are two flaws in your arguing "those elements make a firearm more dangerous."

    1. Inherently, firearms are meant to be dangerous.
    2. Contrary to what you seem to believe, passing laws to try to make firearms inaccurate is nonsensical and dangerous.

    Obviously you do want hunting and target shooting outlawed by deliberately trying to make firearms incapable of doing either. Maybe you would want manufacturers to be required to put on loose and non-adjustable inaccurate gun sights too - and with triggers that sometimes just go off on their own.

    Back to the guitar analogy, it would be to add to regulations that it is illegal to allow guitars to be tunable.
    You do have a point about the "music is evil" crowd, but it does seem a bit tenous. Even at the height of their power, they never came close to banning any music, nevermind musical instruments. But I do get your point

    As far as the "flaws" in my argument, since I've never said that rifles with those "elements" should be banned, explaining why they should not be banned does nothing to refute anything I've said. All I've said is that those claiming that these features are cosmetic or have no function are, at best, misinformed.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #334
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Thanks for the info

    Just to summarize, and correct me if I'm wrong, your saying that, aside from the design and manufacturing issues, a rifle with a pistol grip is easier to fire from a variety of positions other than the standard standing position (see below)
    If, instead trying to intellectualize the issue, you chose to actually go out and use some of these firearms you wouldn't have to ask these ridiculous questions and MIGHT end up with the ability to ask better (more pertinent) questions.

  5. #335
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    NOt really. For example, shooting a weapon from the HIP is often painful with a full pistol grip since you have to contort your wrist and the recoil goes right into the wrist

    that is why exhibition shotgun shooters use a more sporting style gun without a pistol grip

    rather for the one handed under the armpit position, or prone or sitting with the weapon on a rest or bipod in full auto, the pistol grip is a bit easier
    Thanks for the clarification
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #336
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I don't know if this will matter to our conversation, but I have a short personal story:

    When I was 13 I wanted a set of decorative samurai swords for my room. These were the cheap mall knock-offs, not genuine heirlooms. My father was fine with the idea, but my stepmother had a quasi-violent reaction to the mere suggestion of a weapon in 'her' home. I never got the swords, in fact that next week she grounded me for 2 months just for having a knife in my room (I was in to model aircraft and had broken the exact-o-knife I normally used, so I was making due with a stake knife from the kitchen). My stepmother said that by having that knife in my room, I was hording weapons to kill her.

    Fast-forward to last weekend, I took my step-mother shooting for the first time in her life. though she is a 'new gun-owner' (which infers more than simply the amount of time she's owned a gun), she is working past her feelings of intimidation when someone has any kind of weapon or implement around her. She loves shooting her rifle and is in the market for a 357mag revolver for concealed carry.
    Nice story

    It goes to show how factual info and real life experience can bring even the most gun-fearing of people around.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    If, instead trying to intellectualize the issue, you chose to actually go out and use some of these firearms you wouldn't have to ask these ridiculous questions and MIGHT end up with the ability to ask better (more pertinent) questions.
    And if gun loons were to try and stop emotionalizing the issue, they might stop spreading misnformation and start educating people about the realities of gun use. Then, maybe there'd be fewer people who think of them as gun loons
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #338
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    I suspect the real issue is that those who want to ban guns are attempting to suggest that certain features-called by some to be cosmetic-make a gun "more deadly" or make it "more military" and thus more dangerous and "less suitable" for non military use. But since the guns targeted do not have full auto or burst fire capability, those features have no ability to make the gun be more "dangerous". An example would be putting "spoilers" or "wings" on a car that cannot go more than say 55MPH versus one that can do 245. ON a real race car, those wings or spoilers really do allow the car to handle at extremely high speeds far better than one with out it. at 55MPH on a sedan-not really.

    NONE of the features gun banners use to distinguish one type of semi auto rifle from another has any rational basis for drawing a line for banning purposes

    .



  9. #339
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I suspect the real issue is that those who want to ban guns are attempting to suggest that certain features-called by some to be cosmetic-make a gun "more deadly" or make it "more military" and thus more dangerous and "less suitable" for non military use. But since the guns targeted do not have full auto or burst fire capability, those features have no ability to make the gun be more "dangerous". An example would be putting "spoilers" or "wings" on a car that cannot go more than say 55MPH versus one that can do 245. ON a real race car, those wings or spoilers really do allow the car to handle at extremely high speeds far better than one with out it. at 55MPH on a sedan-not really.

    NONE of the features gun banners use to distinguish one type of semi auto rifle from another has any rational basis for drawing a line for banning purposes

    .
    I would word it differently. They aren't "trying to suggest" that. They truly believe it and as a result, want to see those features banned. They believe those features transform a weapon from something suitable for shooting rabbits or geese, into something designed to kill as many humans as possible as quickly as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #340
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    Re: Are assault weapons more or less dangerous than pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I would word it differently. They aren't "trying to suggest" that. They truly believe it and as a result, want to see those features banned. They believe those features transform a weapon from something suitable for shooting rabbits or geese, into something designed to kill as many humans as possible as quickly as possible.
    I agree and disagree. Lots of the LIVs, and others who don't really think about this issue until the media bombards them with a story like Newtown,-you are probably right about them

    as to people like Schumer, Brady, Feinstein, Obama and Biden I disagree. They know better but have an agenda that has nothing to do with crime control or an honest belief that stuff with a pistol grip or a flash hider is too dangerous.



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