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Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

Who to Blame for Obamacares' Failures?


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cpwill

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Right, so. Obamacare is now bending the cost-curve up, millions are going to lose their health insurance, the IRS is saying that the cheapest plan under Obamacares' exchanges will cost $20,000 for a family of five by 2016 and increase out of pocket costs even AFTER the subsidies, the hundreds of billions in cuts to Medicare to fund the program will cause many doctors to stop taking Medicare patients, and if we don't make those cuts to providers, then the costs of Obamacare, which are already rising, to explode. 26 States are refusing to work with HHS, and Obamacare's implementation, already well behind track threatens to fall further and further behind even as it is announced that they will not, actually, technically, so-to-speak, be able to help the people the bill was purported to aid.




So. As this disaster of a behemoth of a bill continues to flail and fail, who are the Democrats going to blame? How far down the rabbit hole are they willing to go, ears plugged, eyes closed?
 
Should note - this poll is prefaced upon the assumption that at some point the ability to deny what is happening will break, and they will have to blame somebody.
 
Your poll is also prefaced by the assumption that Obamacare will fail.
 
None of those. They will deny it was a failure.
 
A Sucker Born Every Minute…

None of those. They will deny it was a failure.

This, I don't believe it will fail, so I can't vote in your poll.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

I think most Americans understood from the beginning that there was no way that this massive scam could possibly succeed at achieving any of what it was claimed to be intended to achieve. As the inevitability of failure becomes increasingly obvious, there are still quite a few suckers who deny the obvious, and I think that this will remain true, no matter how massive and how obvious this failure becomes.

The famous statement popularly, but incorrectly attributed to P. T. Barnum is, in fact, a massive understatement.
 
Re: A Sucker Born Every Minute…


Quod erat demonstrandum.

I think most Americans understood from the beginning that there was no way that this massive scam could possibly succeed at achieving any of what it was claimed to be intended to achieve. As the inevitability of failure becomes increasingly obvious, there are still quite a few suckers who deny the obvious, and I think that this will remain true, no matter how massive and how obvious this failure becomes.

The famous statement popularly, but incorrectly attributed to P. T. Barnum is, in fact, a massive understatement.

There is one more step needed - to remove medical care insurance from being offered as an employer paid, tax free, benefit. Perhaps the push to raise the minimum wage is designed to push more folks into PPACA and off of Medicaid. It never made sense to have so many federal gov't controlled medical care systems; Medicare, Medicaid (including CHIPS) , PPACA, Maternal and child health block grant program, Public Health Service Act, Indian Health Care Improvement Act, Federal employees health benefits program, Military health care system (including Tricare and CHAMPUS programs), Veterans medical care, Health services for Peace Corps volunteers and Medical services for Federal prisoners.
 
Sort of. Prefaced upon the description of how it is currently failing.

Close, prefaced upon how people who say what you want to hear are telling you it is failing, by giving you inaccurate and incomplete pictures, and you buying into those lies. For example you mentions millions losing insurance, but fail to note that those people will still have access to insurance, and the number of insured will go up. it's deceptive practices like that which are the norm for your sources. Reminds me of when you where portraying Ryan's economic plan as from Simpson Bowles, without mentioning that all of the balancing items from Simpson Bowles got omitted, kinda like a kid who decides to eat only their desert but claims he ate what we given to him. The fact you are using editorial sources even in this OP is a sign of how desperate you are to try and make a case that isn't made.

I am not a fan of Obamacare/ACA or whatever it is being called by whatever group, but I will actually let it happen before declaring it failed. That would actually be, you know, honest. Building straw men to try and score political points just makes this whole thread painfully silly, not that it has ever slowed you down as this thread shows.
 
Close, prefaced upon how people who say what you want to hear are telling you it is failing, by giving you inaccurate and incomplete pictures, and you buying into those lies. For example you mentions millions losing insurance, but fail to note that those people will still have access to insurance, and the number of insured will go up. it's deceptive practices like that which are the norm for your sources.

.... the CBO is deceptive because they don't tell you what you want to hear. Classic ad sourcinem by Redress.

Here's a deception for you: "If you like your insurance, you can keep it." That was deceptive as the man knew that it was crap when he said it. I would believe he has been honestly surprised by the fact that he's bent the cost-curve up, though. Give the man honest credit for his beliefs.

I am not a fan of Obamacare/ACA or whatever it is being called by whatever group, but I will actually let it happen before declaring it failed. That would actually be, you know, honest. Building straw men to try and score political points just makes this whole thread painfully silly, not that it has ever slowed you down as this thread shows.

:) Gonna be fun watching ya'll deal with this slow self-dismemberment. Little bit of schadenfreude in all of us. :)
 
Close, prefaced upon how people who say what you want to hear are telling you it is failing, by giving you inaccurate and incomplete pictures, and you buying into those lies. For example you mentions millions losing insurance, but fail to note that those people will still have access to insurance, and the number of insured will go up. it's deceptive practices like that which are the norm for your sources. Reminds me of when you where portraying Ryan's economic plan as from Simpson Bowles, without mentioning that all of the balancing items from Simpson Bowles got omitted, kinda like a kid who decides to eat only their desert but claims he ate what we given to him. The fact you are using editorial sources even in this OP is a sign of how desperate you are to try and make a case that isn't made.

I am not a fan of Obamacare/ACA or whatever it is being called by whatever group, but I will actually let it happen before declaring it failed. That would actually be, you know, honest. Building straw men to try and score political points just makes this whole thread painfully silly, not that it has ever slowed you down as this thread shows.

It will fail because there aren't enough doctors to handle millions of new patients. The only thing it will be successful at is providing less healthcare.
 
Re: A Sucker Born Every Minute…


Quod erat demonstrandum.

I think most Americans understood from the beginning that there was no way that this massive scam could possibly succeed at achieving any of what it was claimed to be intended to achieve. As the inevitability of failure becomes increasingly obvious, there are still quite a few suckers who deny the obvious, and I think that this will remain true, no matter how massive and how obvious this failure becomes.

The famous statement popularly, but incorrectly attributed to P. T. Barnum is, in fact, a massive understatement.

Conservatives can never explain why the modern/advanced Asian and Euro nations have national, affordable , socialized,health care, yet we do not !
Have I forgotten Canada , again ?
Very conservatives cannot explain anything..
And, no vote again, of course....., with major revisions (copying the German plan from the Bismark era), NHC will suceed.
 
Last edited:
The OP neglected to mention:

Sebelius On The CLASS Act: 'I Do Not See A Viable Path Forward'

“We have not identified a way to make Class work at this time,” Ms. Sebelius said. She said the program, which had been championed by Senator Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, was financially unsustainable.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/15/health/policy/15health.html?_r=0

The CLASS act being part of PPACA and was repealed in the last 'fiscal cliff deal'...one has to wonder how much has to/will be repealed before it is deemed 'failure'.
 
It will fail because there aren't enough doctors to handle millions of new patients. The only thing it will be successful at is providing less healthcare.

A "like", even if I disagree.....possibily valid points...
Hopefully, the Obama-care is patterned after VA care, which is, I believe, subsidized by our government.
The VA care is good and affordable, IMO.
Only a fool or a hypochrondiac would abuse it...I imagine that this does happen on occasion, , but each medical visit costs and takes valuable time..
As to running out of doctors.....this is dubious at best....but I have not seen a "doctor " in years..The "nurse practitioners" have taken over..

What I wonder about is this - why must conservatives be so negative about things ??
 
A "like", even if I disagree.....possibily valid points...
Hopefully, the Obama-care is patterned after VA care, which is, I believe, subsidized by our government.
The VA care is good and affordable, IMO.
Only a fool or a hypochrondiac would abuse it...I imagine that this does happen on occasion, , but each medical visit costs and takes valuable time..
As to running out of doctors.....this is dubious at best....but I have not seen a "doctor " in years..The "nurse practitioners" have taken over..

What I wonder about is this - why must conservatives be so negative about things ??

What is negative about poionting out a fact?

"Once a problem limited to rural areas, the doctor shortage is now hitting large population centers such as Las Vegas and Detroit where people are forced to wait weeks or months or travel hundreds of miles for care. Nationwide, there is a shortage of more than 13,000 doctors, according to the Association of American Medical Colleges, a Washington-based nonprofit that represents medical schools.

That shortfall is expected to grow 10-fold to 130,000 doctors within 12 years as the U.S. population ages and 30 million more people are added to insurance rolls under the 2010 health-care law, the medical college association said."

Doctor Shortage Spreading in U.S. Presaged in Las Vegas - Bloomberg
 
Right, so. Obamacare is now bending the cost-curve up, millions are going to lose their health insurance, the IRS is saying that the cheapest plan under Obamacares' exchanges will cost $20,000 for a family of five by 2016 and increase out of pocket costs even AFTER the subsidies, the hundreds of billions in cuts to Medicare to fund the program will cause many doctors to stop taking Medicare patients, and if we don't make those cuts to providers, then the costs of Obamacare, which are already rising, to explode. 26 States are refusing to work with HHS, and Obamacare's implementation, already well behind track threatens to fall further and further behind even as it is announced that they will not, actually, technically, so-to-speak, be able to help the people the bill was purported to aid.


So. As this disaster of a behemoth of a bill continues to flail and fail, who are the Democrats going to blame? How far down the rabbit hole are they willing to go, ears plugged, eyes closed?

They will not acknowledge failure. They'll blame it on those nasty rich bastards that own companies. They'll blame it on Republicans if they don't vote for the tweaks they knew it would need when it was originally enacted. They'll claim they waited to implement it for several years knowing that changes would have to be made as it became clear how the legislation effected everyone. They'll claim unintended consequences are part-and-parcel of such sweeping reform.

What I'd like to know, however, is how this legislation is failing. Now. Because it's going to cost employers more and cost employees more should be a surprise to no one.
 
It is clear that Obamacare, in its current form, will fail. The question is how long will it take for America and its government to move to a single payer system in order to save the nation's citizens from Obamacare. When the single payer system is instituted, Obamacare will be seen as the vehicle that got you there by forcing your hand. As such, Obama will be seen as the father of the single payer system.

There is a lot wrong with both the delivery of health care and its costs in Canada under our universal, single payer healthcare system, including the fact that much of healthcare now requires the individual to pay, but Tommy Douglas, who was instrumental in its inception in the early 1960's, is still deified here as the father of medicare.
 
A "like", even if I disagree.....possibily valid points...
Hopefully, the Obama-care is patterned after VA care, which is, I believe, subsidized by our government.
The VA care is good and affordable, IMO.
Only a fool or a hypochrondiac would abuse it...I imagine that this does happen on occasion, , but each medical visit costs and takes valuable time..
As to running out of doctors.....this is dubious at best....but I have not seen a "doctor " in years..The "nurse practitioners" have taken over..

What I wonder about is this - why must conservatives be so negative about things ??


The VA...where they had the unsanitized colonoscopy scopes that led to an AIDs scare a few years ago, and the double-dip insulin pens that led to a blood-born pathogens scare this year? THAT VA?

Regardless, for several years now we've (Medicaid/Medicare/SCHIP) been either cutting or suspending payouts to doctors while the costs of providing care have risen. Why would ANY system that maintains that pattern lead to an abundance of available medical care?
 
The VA...where they had the unsanitized colonoscopy scopes that led to an AIDs scare a few years ago, and the double-dip insulin pens that led to a blood-born pathogens scare this year? THAT VA?

Regardless, for several years now we've (Medicaid/Medicare/SCHIP) been either cutting or suspending payouts to doctors while the costs of providing care have risen. Why would ANY system that maintains that pattern lead to an abundance of available medical care?

It wouldn't, tess. And why some people don't seem to see what is right before their face, boggles my mind.

Hell, the entire Medicaid turned KanCare (here in Kansas) is just the tip of the nightmarish iceberg. I work with a disabled population whose benefits have been cut to the point where they will be DENIED medical care because of some of the changes that have been made.

Local holes exist in KanCare networks | CJOnline.com
 
It is clear that Obamacare, in its current form, will fail. The question is how long will it take for America and its government to move to a single payer system in order to save the nation's citizens from Obamacare. When the single payer system is instituted, Obamacare will be seen as the vehicle that got you there by forcing your hand. As such, Obama will be seen as the father of the single payer system.

There is a lot wrong with both the delivery of health care and its costs in Canada under our universal, single payer healthcare system, including the fact that much of healthcare now requires the individual to pay, but Tommy Douglas, who was instrumental in its inception in the early 1960's, is still deified here as the father of medicare.

The problem is the single payer that the Democrats want is 'the rich'. :lol:
 
It's technically too early to assume such things, but - as mentioned - without major changes to the system, Obamacare will indeed fail without question. Usually the only people who will deny this are the few fringe-left Kool Aiders, such as the ones who voiced in on the front pages. It might help if they actually read into it a little.

Ignore the simple cost function of Obamacare for a second. It fails alone on that. I am more focused on the supply/demand factor of medical care. The only way this can be countered is for university med programs to essentially blast open the flood gates and allow everyone to go in for medical education who wants to go, instead of being wait-listed in a crowding out method.

Obama has already slashed the reimbursement rate for Medicare and Medicaid in his presidency, and with the government getting involved with every aspect of health care, who knows? How they will treat doctors financially with regards to money for services that are covered by any type of "insurance" even remotely subsidized by the government will determine exactly how many more physicians will leave the field altogether or find another method to receive fair compensation for their services. This could very well be a death penalty to private practice, specifically gen-prac/fam-prac. I can easily see a scenario where you'll essentially have to go to an already overcrowded, SRO hospital to get a pill for your sniffles.

However, part of me wishes this to get implanted. Most of the people who voted for Obama because of the illusion of UHC are the ones who will get screwed by it the most. Frankly, I will enjoy sitting back and watching rampant stupidity get punished dearly.
 
None of the above.

Obamacare was designed to fail intentionally. The whole thing was supposed to have an option to allow the government to seize control of healthcare but it got cut out. However, they continued with the rest, knowing it would fail, in order to re-address socialized medicine later with a better chance of getting it through. So, no need to blame anyone when it is working as designed.
 
Considering that the 2100 page bill was written by insurance companies...and virtually every congressional member openly admitted that they didn't read the content, I don't see any viable way to determine what the outcome will truly be....except for one thing that we can count on. The insurance companies win. Period.

The Congressional Budget Office is a way more likely source for determining potential outcomes...but the IRS? Now that is mind baffling. Why would the IRS be involved in making ObamaCare assessments. It's not like it doesn't have enough on its plate without jumping into cost/benefit analysis on O.C.

Insurance companies own a substantial stake in our Congress. Congress won't add insurance companies to the Sherman Anti-trust Act...nor will they create a law that forces competition across state lines. Thus the top 5 major insurance companies maintain a monopoly.

And just in case somebody doesn't know...Medicare and Medicaid is managed by the same top 5 insurance companies on behalf of the government. Even though the names of the companies listed (if you do a search are listed under, in some cases, subsidiarity names.)

Look folks...you can buy into the Washington distraction games all you want to. The ongoing fights between the parties keep the American people from focusing on the real issues, which would force Congress to be more accountable...but in the end, those who own Washington don't care what office holder carries which political label...as they all serve the same masters....and the masters damn sure ain't the citizens.

Everyday the evidence that the Federal Government is totally out of the hands of the American people and yet so many people cling to a mythical political philosophy as those somebody in Washington is faithfully practicing partisan political philosophies...except for one...and that isn't conservatism or liberalism...its known as Powerism.

Continue to watch the political bouncing ball if you will. Continue to buy into political false prophets. But it will ultimately lead to the end of America as it was intended. We already owe our collective souls to the the company store.
 
Considering that the 2100 page bill was written by insurance companies...and virtually every congressional member openly admitted that they didn't read the content, I don't see any viable way to determine what the outcome will truly be....except for one thing that we can count on. The insurance companies win. Period.

The Congressional Budget Office is a way more likely source for determining potential outcomes...but the IRS? Now that is mind baffling. Why would the IRS be involved in making ObamaCare assessments. It's not like it doesn't have enough on its plate without jumping into cost/benefit analysis on O.C.

Insurance companies own a substantial stake in our Congress. Congress won't add insurance companies to the Sherman Anti-trust Act...nor will they create a law that forces competition across state lines. Thus the top 5 major insurance companies maintain a monopoly.

And just in case somebody doesn't know...Medicare and Medicaid is managed by the same top 5 insurance companies on behalf of the government. Even though the names of the companies listed (if you do a search are listed under, in some cases, subsidiarity names.)

Look folks...you can buy into the Washington distraction games all you want to. The ongoing fights between the parties keep the American people from focusing on the real issues, which would force Congress to be more accountable...but in the end, those who own Washington don't care what office holder carries which political label...as they all serve the same masters....and the masters damn sure ain't the citizens.

Everyday the evidence that the Federal Government is totally out of the hands of the American people and yet so many people cling to a mythical political philosophy as those somebody in Washington is faithfully practicing partisan political philosophies...except for one...and that isn't conservatism or liberalism...its known as Powerism.

Continue to watch the political bouncing ball if you will. Continue to buy into political false prophets. But it will ultimately lead to the end of America as it was intended. We already owe our collective souls to the the company store.

I wouldn't jump the gun on insurance companies yet.
The law also allowed more businesses to self insure, rather than buy from the insurance business and more are taking advantage of it.
It allows them to get around some of the legal mandates afford by the PPACA.
 
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