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Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

Who to Blame for Obamacares' Failures?

  • They wil blame Republicans, claiming Obamacare was their idea

    Votes: 24 34.3%

  • They will blame themselves for not pushing single payer

    Votes: 8 11.4%

  • They will blame providers and insurers for attempting to survive

    Votes: 30 42.9%

  • IT WAS THAT VILLIAN, GEORGE BUSH!

    Votes: 33 47.1%
  • Total voters
    70
cpwill said:
Right, so. Obamacare is now bending the cost-curve up, millions are going to lose their health insurance, the IRS is saying that the cheapest plan under Obamacares' exchanges will cost $20,000 for a family of five by 2016 and increase out of pocket costs even AFTER the subsidies, the hundreds of billions in cuts to Medicare to fund the program will cause many doctors to stop taking Medicare patients, and if we don't make those cuts to providers, then the costs of Obamacare, which are already rising, to explode. 26 States are refusing to work with HHS, and Obamacare's implementation, already well behind track threatens to fall further and further behind even as it is announced that they will not, actually, technically, so-to-speak, be able to help the people the bill was purported to aid.




So. As this disaster of a behemoth of a bill continues to flail and fail, who are the Democrats going to blame? How far down the rabbit hole are they willing to go, ears plugged, eyes closed?
Click to expand...

Right, so. Oct 1, which was the deadline, has since been delayed due to the ongoing trainwreck that is the Obamacare implementation. Since this poll was launched, the administration has proven itself too incompetent to meet more than half of its legally imposed deadlines, even the stalwart Democrat constituency of labor unions have declared it to be shattering the 40 hour work-week, and costs are continuing to rise . Even the IRS doesn't want it.


Based off of my own highly unscientific observation of the forum, it looks like #2, "blame themselves for not pushing single-payer" is thus far the surprise favorite.
 
cpwill said:
Right, so. Obamacare is now bending the cost-curve up, millions are going to lose their health insurance, the IRS is saying that the cheapest plan under Obamacares' exchanges will cost $20,000 for a family of five by 2016 and increase out of pocket costs even AFTER the subsidies, the hundreds of billions in cuts to Medicare to fund the program will cause many doctors to stop taking Medicare patients, and if we don't make those cuts to providers, then the costs of Obamacare, which are already rising, to explode. 26 States are refusing to work with HHS, and Obamacare's implementation, already well behind track threatens to fall further and further behind even as it is announced that they will not, actually, technically, so-to-speak, be able to help the people the bill was purported to aid.


So. As this disaster of a behemoth of a bill continues to flail and fail, who are the Democrats going to blame? How far down the rabbit hole are they willing to go, ears plugged, eyes closed?
Click to expand...

A more interesting question at this point is who's going to get credit for:


Interesting how the predictions of February match up with the realities of September.
 
:doh

taking credit for stuff that happens before Obamacares' implementation.... Really?

But hey. If you really want to run on "This thing is great and doing great things for you"..... er, be my guest? I would urge that with the same degree of conviction that Democrats would have urging Republicans to run on a "re-invade Iraq" platform.
 
cpwill said:
:doh

taking credit for stuff that happens before Obamacares' implementation.... Really?

But hey. If you really want to run on "This thing is great and doing great things for you"..... er, be my guest? I would urge that with the same degree of conviction that Democrats would have urging Republicans to run on a "re-invade Iraq" platform.
Click to expand...

It's true that it's far from a complete picture. I agree with that and am reluctant to make too many predictions on something that is not fully implemented, let along adjusted for.

That said, these things he lists is likely a reaction to what is coming, and as such should be seen as related, if not a direct effect of ACA. Truly, that case is stronger than the nay sayers. But both will have to wait.
 
cpwill said:
Right, so. Obamacare is now bending the cost-curve up, millions are going to lose their health insurance, the IRS is saying that the cheapest plan under Obamacares' exchanges will cost $20,000 for a family of five by 2016 and increase out of pocket costs even AFTER the subsidies, the hundreds of billions in cuts to Medicare to fund the program will cause many doctors to stop taking Medicare patients, and if we don't make those cuts to providers, then the costs of Obamacare, which are already rising, to explode. 26 States are refusing to work with HHS, and Obamacare's implementation, already well behind track threatens to fall further and further behind even as it is announced that they will not, actually, technically, so-to-speak, be able to help the people the bill was purported to aid.




So. As this disaster of a behemoth of a bill continues to flail and fail, who are the Democrats going to blame? How far down the rabbit hole are they willing to go, ears plugged, eyes closed?
Click to expand...


I'm glad this thread will be around from years to come. I didn't know Obamacare had already failed or that so many people can see the future! This will be interesting to see the actual results in the next years.
 
cpwill said:
:doh

taking credit for stuff that happens before Obamacares' implementation.... Really?
Click to expand...

This isn't before Obamacare's implementation. The delivery system reforms in Obamacare (particularly the Medicare reforms) have been rolling out for more than three years. Some of them are even in the evaluation phase at this point. For instance, every single Pioneer ACO under Obamacare improved the quality of care delivered, with nearly half achieving significant savings to Medicare while doing so: Obamacare pilot project lowers Medicare costs. Medicare's hospital readmissions reduction program is also already operating, and the drop in preventable readmissions coincides with its creation. And so on. Quality of care is improving across the health care system and, as it does, cost growth is dropping to lows never achieved before.

Similarly, the lower-than-expected premiums for 2014 that are showing up in the new (i.e. Obamacare) marketplaces are obviously a product of the law, which is creating transparent, competitive insurance marketplaces in states where there haven't been any in quite some time.

These are unprecedented times. As I said, the interesting question at this point is who's going to take credit. I don't think the answer should be particularly mysterious. The GOP has been very careful not to muddy the waters on this one: all things health care related are at Obama's feet. Something of a tactical mistake, one would think.
 
Greenbeard said:
The slowest health care spending growth and the lowest health care price inflation on record (i.e. the bending downward of the cost curve)
Click to expand...

from my understanding that is more a function of a down economy.
 
Re: A Sucker Born Every Minute…

earthworm said:
Conservatives can never explain why the modern/advanced Asian and Euro nations have national, affordable , socialized,health care, yet we do not !
Have I forgotten Canada , again ?
Very conservatives cannot explain anything..
And, no vote again, of course....., with major revisions (copying the German plan from the Bismark era), NHC will suceed.
Click to expand...

First, Obamacare doesn't even resemble UHC, not even close. It's a bastardized version that won't even come close to functioning like UHC.

Second, the German system allows people to opt out of UHC and take a tax rebate so they can go private and not have to pay for anybody else. The democrats will never allow something like that because their plans can only function based on coercion.
 
Re: A Sucker Born Every Minute…

We get it! Republicans hate Obamacare. Fine. Let it be winner take all. If Obamacare is a disaster, you win. If it becomes an established pillar of the safety net with Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, we win. And you don't get to claim you ever supported it.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Your poll is also prefaced by the assumption that Obamacare will fail.
Click to expand...

It is failing as we speak. It's designed to fail.

He's been acting like a Queen... handing out waivers to the faithful like they're party favors.

This is Obama's Benghazi to the medical community and nation. Another pure fark up by our Enfant Terrible in de White Ouse and Les Ensemble of Court Jesters in the Ouse and Senate that passed it using tricks.
 
zimmer said:
It is failing as we speak. It's designed to fail.

He's been acting like a Queen... handing out waivers to the faithful like they're party favors.

This is Obama's Benghazi to the medical community and nation. Another pure fark up by our Enfant Terrible in de White Ouse and Les Ensemble of Court Jesters in the Ouse and Senate that passed it using tricks.
Click to expand...

If Republicans had their way, there'd be a waiver for everyone...because they'd repeal Obamacare and replace it with nothing.
 
Re: A Sucker Born Every Minute…

aberrant85 said:
We get it! Republicans hate Obamacare. Fine. Let it be winner take all. If Obamacare is a disaster, you win. If it becomes an established pillar of the safety net with Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, we win. And you don't get to claim you ever supported it.
Click to expand...

ROTFLOL... that collection of government intrusion isn't a safety net, it's a noose. A huge chunk of $60Trillion in unfunded liabilities... and we don't have the money.

I'm not against assisting those that cannot help themselves; the mentally ill, physically handicapped... but theiving massive chunks of wealth, putting it through the government meat grinder and coming out with an empty sack at the end is no way to run a country... AND IT ISN'T THEIR RESPONSIBILITY. It is our personal responsibility, and this... not anti-American BS should be taught in schools and by parents...

... namely... you are responsible for you life. This is how a free society works. These are YOUR responsibilities. Plan and do.

Instead we have an entire swath of people looking to and sucking on the nipple of that behemoth called government. It's pathetic. But that's what happens when the disease called Socialism infects society. Decay.

RTEmagicC_1_6647_1_01.jpg.jpg
 
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Re: A Sucker Born Every Minute…

zimmer said:
ROTFLOL... that collection of government intrusion isn't a safety net, it's a noose. A huge chunk of $60Trillion in unfunded liabilities... and we don't have the money.

I'm not against assisting those that cannot help themselves; the mentally ill, physically handicapped... but theiving massive chunks of wealth, putting it through the government meat grinder and coming out with an empty sack at the end is no way to run a country... AND IT ISN'T THEIR RESPONSIBILITY. It is our personal responsibility, and this... not anti-American BS should be taught in schools and by parents...

... namely... you are responsible for you life. This is how a free society works. These are YOUR responsibilities. Plan and do.

Instead we have an entire swath of people looking to and sucking on the nipple of that behemoth called government. It's pathetic. But that's what happens when the disease called Socialism infects society. Decay.
Click to expand...

So you'll be sending your SS checks back when your old and wrinkly?
 
aberrant85 said:
If Republicans had their way, there'd be a waiver for everyone...because they'd repeal Obamacare and replace it with nothing.
Click to expand...

Yes... we want that piece of garbage disposed of in the toxic waste dump where it belongs.

It should be replaced by a free market system. You know... the same one that drives down costs of cars, computers, cell phones, and amazingly provides better and better service and products.

It works all the time. Get government out of the equation, and let the free market work for the 650,000 service providers called doctors.
 
Re: A Sucker Born Every Minute…

Zimmer Edit in red.

aberrant85 said:
So you'll be sending your Ponzi Scheme checks back when your old and wrinkly?
Click to expand...

There won't be any. I won't qualify.
 
zimmer said:
Yes... we want that piece of garbage disposed of in the toxic waste dump where it belongs.

It should be replaced by a free market system. You know... the same one that drives down costs of cars, computers, cell phones, and amazingly provides better and better service and products.

It works all the time. Get government out of the equation, and let the free market work for the 650,000 service providers called doctors.
Click to expand...

1. Healthcare is not a free market system. I know Antonin Scalia loves his broccoli, but you cannot just go and buy healthcare like you can buy broccoli. An insurer can refuse to sell you their product if you have hay fever, acne, or something as stupid.

2. Even if it was a true free market, you do not comparison shop hospitals when you have a heart attack. You do not choose the cheapest doctor when it comes to surgery.

3. This country's healthcare system is itself sick to death. Obamacare barely scratches the surface of it, but it's a start, by increasing the amount of people who are even given the chance to buy some of our crappy healthcare. Why, for instance, is health insurance tied to employment? Why do we pay more than other countries, and have less quality care? Why does the hospital charge you $10 for a ten cent aspirin? These are not questions that can be answered by the free market.
 
aberrant85 said:
...
Click to expand...
Show me one socialist healthkare system that works and is solvent. There are none. That's why Canadians go to the US to get care.

These systems ration, they have long waiting lists, they are corrupt, slow and view things like technology and Doctors as costs. They are corrupt systems that stagnate and where people suffer and die waiting for care.

AND WHEN THE GOVERNMENT WAVES AT YOU WITH THEIR MIDDLE FINGER... you have no recourse. You'll wish for the insurance companies.

Luckily for the little girl who was given the death penalty by Obama's Death Panel... because she was a few weeks short of some arbitrary age deadline... the public screamed. She got the care needed to save her life. Sebelius... Frau Death... basically, and coldly said... That's just the way it is.
 
zimmer said:
Show me one socialist healthkare system that works and is solvent. There are none. That's why Canadians go to the US to get care.

These systems ration, they have long waiting lists, they are corrupt, slow and view things like technology and Doctors as costs. They are corrupt systems that stagnate and where people suffer and die waiting for care.

AND WHEN THE GOVERNMENT WAVES AT YOU WITH THEIR MIDDLE FINGER... you have no recourse. You'll wish for the insurance companies.

Luckily for the little girl who was given the death penalty by Obama's Death Panel... because she was a few weeks short of some arbitrary age deadline... the public screamed. She got the care needed to save her life. Sebelius... Frau Death... basically, and coldly said... That's just the way it is.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you are talking about with regards to the Death Panel girl, is this some sort of fairy tale written by Sarah Palin?

Canada may have problems, but people are not denied healthcare who need it. If you have a heart attack, you will see a doctor. If you hurt your knee but are otherwise OK, you may have to wait a significant amount of time to see one so patients with more dire needs can go first. Some may come to the US to get their knee fixed faster, but they must be pretty wealthy because most Canadians don't have health insurance that would work in the US, so they'd be paying in cash.

If it were me, I'd limp for a few weeks if the treatment was good and free and I knew some emergency patients were being saved and not bankrupted. But I understand some people don't feel the same.
 
aberrant85 said:
I don't know what you are talking about with regards to the Death Panel girl, is this some sort of fairy tale written by Sarah Palin?
Click to expand...
Of course you don't. Your ignorance on this recent story is illustrative of your ignorance of the failures of socialist medical systems. It was no fairy tale, it was a horror story where Sebelius illustrated the sickly, cold hand of government healthkare.

Canada may have problems, but people are not denied healthcare who need it.
Click to expand...
Your ignorance of the failed Canadian system shows. I know the Canadian system, and you should read a book by a Canadian Doc called Code Blue. Google it, his name and read his articles.

A case about the long waiting lists in Quebec (and they're nation wide) decided by the Quebec Supreme court... stated waiting lists do not constitute care. Now... why would such a case make it to court, and The Supreme Court?

If it were me, I'd limp for a few weeks if the treatment was good and free and I knew some emergency patients were being saved and not bankrupted. But I understand some people don't feel the same.
Click to expand...
1. Treatment isn't free.
2. The systems are bankrupt.
3. You're talking months, even years.

I was once just like you... I believed in the system... but the facts paint a different picture. It'd be nice if the Utopian Socialist Fairy Tale worked... it doesn't. It's not that it doesn't work... it's a miserable failure for all except those who escape it.
 
zimmer said:
It is failing as we speak. It's designed to fail.

He's been acting like a Queen... handing out waivers to the faithful like they're party favors.

This is Obama's Benghazi to the medical community and nation. Another pure fark up by our Enfant Terrible in de White Ouse and Les Ensemble of Court Jesters in the Ouse and Senate that passed it using tricks.
Click to expand...

You do not seem to understand verb tenses. In the context that I used the term "fail" means past tense. Since Obamacare has not been fully enacted as of yet, this would be the incorrect tense to use.

Seems like ever since you got to DP, zim, I'm correcting you on how you use words.
 
You tried, you failed... Again. See below.

CaptainCourtesy said:
You do not seem to understand verb tenses. In the context that I used the term "fail" means past tense. Since Obamacare has not been fully enacted as of yet, this would be the incorrect tense to use.

Seems like ever since you got to DP, zim, I'm correcting you on how you use words.
Click to expand...
BS ALERT. ROTFLOL... there must be ample examples; try finding a few of your talent as a cunning linguist.

Here is the post I replied to.
CaptainCourtesy said:
Your poll is also prefaced by the assumption that Obamacare will fail.
Click to expand...

Where is the past tense? It isn't there. "will fail" is future. "has failed" is past.

Try, try again.
 
zimmer said:
You tried, you failed... Again. See below.


BS ALERT. ROTFLOL... there must be ample examples; try finding a few of your talent as a cunning linguist.
Click to expand...

I tend to not interact with you much upstairs, zim. Your posts tend to be dumb partisan hack comments filled with inaccuracies and fallacies which really don't interest me much. I learned this the first time I interacted with you back in 2008 when you couldn't correctly define the word "socialist".

Here is the post I replied to.


Where is the past tense? It isn't there. "will fail" is future. "has failed" is past.

Try, try again.
Click to expand...

My comment was a response to your poll question. Your poll question was flawed as it uses a begging the question logical fallacy and assumes that Obamacare WILL fail... a future tense comment. One cannot state that something HAS failed until it actually DOES fail... and for something to fail it has to actually apply. Obamacare will not apply until 2014. My comment demonstrated your fallacy (something that most of your posts contain) and showed that in order for your statement to make any sense, it must be PAST tense, which it is not.

There. Now that I have diagrammed this situation for you, demonstrated that your entire thread is based on a stupid logical fallacy, showed that you don't understand verb tenses, please feel free to comment with your partisan screaming of "Nuh, Uh".
 
zimmer said:
Of course you don't. Your ignorance on this recent story is illustrative of your ignorance of the failures of socialist medical systems. It was no fairy tale, it was a horror story where Sebelius illustrated the sickly, cold hand of government healthkare.

Your ignorance of the failed Canadian system shows. I know the Canadian system, and you should read a book by a Canadian Doc called Code Blue. Google it, his name and read his articles.

A case about the long waiting lists in Quebec (and they're nation wide) decided by the Quebec Supreme court... stated waiting lists do not constitute care. Now... why would such a case make it to court, and The Supreme Court?


1. Treatment isn't free.
2. The systems are bankrupt.
3. You're talking months, even years.

I was once just like you... I believed in the system... but the facts paint a different picture. It'd be nice if the Utopian Socialist Fairy Tale worked... it doesn't. It's not that it doesn't work... it's a miserable failure for all except those who escape it.
Click to expand...

Please tell me about the death panel girl, or post a link.
 
My comment was a response to your poll question. Your poll question was flawed as it uses a begging the question logical fallacy and assumes that Obamacare WILL fail... a future tense comment.
Click to expand...
It's NOT MY POLL. Whoops!

CPWILL started the poll... so I was wondering what the hell you were talking about... hence the retracing your comment to my post which was not past tense.

OC can wipe the egg of your face... I'll be generous... crap like that can happen.

CaptainCourtesy said:
I tend to not interact with you much upstairs, zim. Your posts tend to be dumb partisan hack comments filled with inaccuracies and fallacies which really don't interest me much. I learned this the first time I interacted with you back in 2008 when you couldn't correctly define the word "socialist".
Click to expand...
ROTFLOL... yeah right. You don't post up here because I'd boot your can all over DP... "inaccuracies and fallacies"... (ahem... like the huge dump of yours in this post... above?) if it's so easy, why not come out and destroy me... LOL...?

In the words of our scummy little Secretary of State... Bring It On.
 
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aberrant85 said:
Please tell me about the death panel girl, or post a link.
Click to expand...

It was a lung transplant, not a liver. Isn't the bureaucracy wonderful? The Sebelius Death Panel at Work.
In the end, due to a public outcry... and a judge... thanks to the ice cold testimony of Sebelius... she got her life saving transplant.
Obamacare establishes death panels, and right now Sebelius is it. And that's what Obamacare says. I don't know how many times it says it in there, but the phrase "as the secretary shall determine,"
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2...denies_lung_transpl ant_for_10_year_old_girl
Click to expand...

Kathleen Sebelius won't intervene in girl's lung transplant case
Kathleen Sebelius won't intervene in girl's lung transplant case - CBS News
Click to expand...

Sebelius won't intervene in girl's transplant case
Sebelius won't intervene in girl's transplant case - NBC News.com
Click to expand...

Sarah Murnaghan, 11, Home After Controversial Lung Transplant
Sarah Murnaghan, 11, Home After Controversial Lung Transplant - ABC News
Click to expand...

Sebelius... the cold iron fist of government healthkare.
[video]http://hotair.com/archives/2013/06/04/sebelius-i-cant-suspend-the-lung-transplant-rules-for-a-dying-10-year-old/[/video]
 
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