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Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

Who to Blame for Obamacares' Failures?

  • They wil blame Republicans, claiming Obamacare was their idea

    Votes: 24 34.3%

  • They will blame themselves for not pushing single payer

    Votes: 8 11.4%

  • They will blame providers and insurers for attempting to survive

    Votes: 30 42.9%

  • IT WAS THAT VILLIAN, GEORGE BUSH!

    Votes: 33 47.1%
  • Total voters
    70
Jack Hays said:
Ah. Well, carpenters don't swear an oath to seek profit either. Nor do lawyers and engineers. Yet they all expect to make a living. Regardless, the point about health-care-as-a-commodity is not whether health care professionals should be paid, but whether health care consumers should pay for the commodity. Those who produce our food, clothing and shelter are paid for their services. Why not our health care professionals?:fueltofir
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You're missing the point, this is very different than a carpenter. This is dealing largely in a persons worse moments, there illness and injury. Not the market place type of situation. Sorry, not a widget.
 
Boo Radley said:
Yep, he was. It was after all mostly what he supported and implemented previously. He said he'd keep everything but the way to pay for it.
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That is such a silly assertion that I'll have to ask for a citation or link, or draw an unflattering conclusion.:liar
 
If Obama let's the sequester go through it'll be blamed for many many of Obama's failures.
That's why I like the idea of Congress granting Obama the limited power to move funding around from bucket to bucket.
Kinda gets it back to the guy who had the idea to begin with.
 
Boo Radley said:
You're missing the point, this is very different than a carpenter. This is dealing largely in a persons worse moments, there illness and injury. Not the market place type of situation. Sorry, not a widget.
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There is no reason at all to think it's different. Health care is no more critical than food, clothing or shelter, and yet we expect people (rightly) to provide those for themselves. :sick:
 
Jack Hays said:
That is such a silly assertion that I'll have to ask for a citation or link, or draw an unflattering conclusion.:liar
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It's actually logic. Let me ask, if your daughter was just hit by a car, how much negotiating are you willing to do?
 
Jack Hays said:
There is no reason at all to think it's different. Health care is no more critical than food, clothing or shelter, and yet we expect people (rightly) to provide those for themselves. :sick:
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Not as easy to get either. And, government does help people to eat and have shelter. Both easier than doing self surgery.
 
But this should be seen as a personal, individual need, not as a commodity to be distributed like other marketplace commodities. That is a fundamental mistake in the way this country, and only this country, looks at health care . . .

PBS- Healthcare Crisis: Marcia Angell, MD



Health is not a commodity: Let us get the language right

Health is not a commodity: Let us get the language right | Physicians for a National Health Program

The fundamental flaw in conservatives’ health care approach is their elasticity estimation, the point at which demand diminishes if the price is too high. With health care, people keep demanding no matter what the price, especially in cases of life or death, creating an inelastic demand. This offers no incentive for providers to stabilize pricing. (Medicaid and Medicare’s pricing caps and those uninsured only work to put more pressure on private insurance.)

http://www.mn2020hindsight.org/view/good-health-is-not-a-commodity
 
Boo Radley said:
It's actually logic. Let me ask, if your daughter was just hit by a car, how much negotiating are you willing to do?
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You are ducking the question, so I'll have to draw that unflattering conclusion.:liar

Our daughter is now an adult and has excellent health insurance coverage, as she did when she was our responsibility. Health care is a commodity.:cool:
 
Boo Radley said:
Not as easy to get either. And, government does help people to eat and have shelter. Both easier than doing self surgery.
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I have no objection to charitable endeavors to assist those who have not provided for themselves.:cool:
 
Jack Hays said:
You are ducking the question, so I'll have to draw that unflattering conclusion.:liar

Our daughter is now an adult and has excellent health insurance coverage, as she did when she was our responsibility. Health care is a commodity.:cool:
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Not ducking anything. You have links above you. I asked a question that speaks to the issue. You should show some patience and maybe try figuring out why the question was asked. Honesty isn't about you getting the answer you want, but in trying to follow the reasoning.
 
Boo Radley said:
But this should be seen as a personal, individual need, not as a commodity to be distributed like other marketplace commodities. That is a fundamental mistake in the way this country, and only this country, looks at health care . . .

PBS- Healthcare Crisis: Marcia Angell, MD



Health is not a commodity: Let us get the language right

Health is not a commodity: Let us get the language right | Physicians for a National Health Program

The fundamental flaw in conservatives’ health care approach is their elasticity estimation, the point at which demand diminishes if the price is too high. With health care, people keep demanding no matter what the price, especially in cases of life or death, creating an inelastic demand. This offers no incentive for providers to stabilize pricing. (Medicaid and Medicare’s pricing caps and those uninsured only work to put more pressure on private insurance.)

Good Health is Not a Commodity - MN2020 Hindsight
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Propaganda in large quantities remains propaganda.:spin:
 
Boo Radley said:
Not ducking anything. You have links above you. I asked a question that speaks to the issue. You should show some patience and maybe try figuring out why the question was asked. Honesty isn't about you getting the answer you want, but in trying to follow the reasoning.
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You have provided no link to support your assertion that Romney would have retained Obamacare.:liar
 
Jack Hays said:
I have no objection to charitable endeavors to assist those who have not provided for themselves.:cool:
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There's a reason churches went to the government during the Great Depression. Frankly. Fewer people suffer and we're actually much better today. Think of medicine more like the fire department and other public services where we can handle large problems for the betterment of all.
 
Jack Hays said:
You have provided no link to support your assertion that Romney would have retained Obamacare.:liar
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My bad, I thought you were asking for the other, which your comment implies. However:


Romney Wants to Keep Key Parts of Obamacare

Romney Wants to Keep Key Parts of Obamacare - Politics - The Atlantic Wire

Mitt Romney: I like parts of Obamacare, would keep them in place

Read more: Mitt Romney: I like parts of Obamacare, would keep them in place; Paul Ryan won't reveal tax loopholes to be sealed - NY Daily News
 
Jack Hays said:
Propaganda in large quantities remains propaganda.:spin:
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I know. Differences of opinion you don't agree with are propaganda. But one is a group of physicians. Go figure. :coffeepap
 
Boo Radley said:
My bad, I thought you were asking for the other, which your comment implies. However:


Romney Wants to Keep Key Parts of Obamacare

Romney Wants to Keep Key Parts of Obamacare - Politics - The Atlantic Wire

Mitt Romney: I like parts of Obamacare, would keep them in place

Read more: Mitt Romney: I like parts of Obamacare, would keep them in place; Paul Ryan won't reveal tax loopholes to be sealed - NY Daily News
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From your own link: "I say we're going to replace Obamacare. And I'm replacing it with my own plan," he said. Game, set match.:rock
 
Jack Hays said:
From your own link: "I say we're going to replace Obamacare. And I'm replacing it with my own plan," he said. Game, set match.:rock
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Which keeps everything but the way to pay for it as I said. You have to read the details. That's how one doesn't become a sheep.
 
Boo Radley said:
There's a reason churches went to the government during the Great Depression. Frankly. Fewer people suffer and we're actually much better today. Think of medicine more like the fire department and other public services where we can handle large problems for the betterment of all.
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Why? Medicine is an individual concern. :cool:
 
Jack Hays said:
Why? Medicine is an individual concern. :cool:
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It's a public concern. Illness often bleeds from one to another. The entire community runs a risk with too many unhealthy folks running around.
 
Boo Radley said:
Which keeps everything but the way to pay for it as I said. You have to read the details. That's how one doesn't become a sheep.
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Let me ask a simple question. Why should an adult expect anyone other than them self to provide for their care?
 
Jack Hays said:
Keep denying. It will give you comfort for a time, but it will end badly.:cool:
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Says one not seeing what he'll keep in his plan hat looks just like Obama's minus the paying for it.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Let me ask a simple question. Why should an adult expect anyone other than them self to provide for their care?
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First, it's the wrong question. It isn't about expectation, but about the problem of a needed service, like when your house is on fire, that most can't really handle on their own. Because it will eventually involve others, a wise community plans for that eventuality.

And we do the not individually, but as a community.
 
Jack Hays said:
The kindest word that can be used for that assertion is "false.":liar
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No, not false at all. From the link:

he said. ''One is to make sure that those with pre-existing conditions can get coverage."
 
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