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Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

Who to Blame for Obamacares' Failures?

  • They wil blame Republicans, claiming Obamacare was their idea

    Votes: 24 34.3%

  • They will blame themselves for not pushing single payer

    Votes: 8 11.4%

  • They will blame providers and insurers for attempting to survive

    Votes: 30 42.9%

  • IT WAS THAT VILLIAN, GEORGE BUSH!

    Votes: 33 47.1%
  • Total voters
    70
tessaesque said:
CP has a point, though. How can you call those concessions to Republicans when the bill went through w/o a single Republican vote for it?
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Just because the Republicans didn't vote for it doesn't make those concessions any less real. Giving in to Republicans on certain complaints only for them to snub the whole bill anyway is actually a well known and resented point.
 
Cardinal said:
Just because the Republicans didn't vote for it doesn't make those concessions any less real. Giving in to Republicans on certain complaints only for them to snub the whole bill anyway is actually a well known and resented point.
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I really don't see the logic in calling them Republican concessions. If the bill didn't need republican votes and didn't receive any, why pass the bill with the concessions...unless you needed them to sway independents and blue dog dems?
 
Missing from discussion are the dissenting Democrats who had to satisfy their conservative constituencies....
 
tessaesque said:
I really don't see the logic in calling them Republican concessions. If the bill didn't need republican votes and didn't receive any, why pass the bill with the concessions...unless you needed them to sway independents and blue dog dems?
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I didn't pull those examples out of my ass:

• Commit $50 million to fund state initiatives designed to reduce medical malpractice costs

• Allow undercover investigations of health care providers receiving Medicare, Medicaid and other federal programs

• Boost Medicaid reimbursements to doctors in certain states
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Obama embraces some GOP health care proposals - CNN

Sen. Charles Grassley, a key Republican negotiator on health care, was on a winning streak as Congress recessed for August, having wrung important concessions from Democrats, including an agreement to back away from a government plan to compete with private insurers.
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Health Care Concessions Irking Liberals - CBS News

So what does it ultimately matter whether Republicans ended up voting for the bill or not? Who knows why democrats made the concessions if they had the votes anyway? The concessions happened. Not voting for the bill doesn't magically rewrite the past.
 
Cardinal said:
I did blame democrats.
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Yeah, I saw that token finger-wag you did. I give Democrats 3% of the blame for their handling of the 97% of the blame that Republicans deserve.

Terrific objectivity. I'm sure if you get a splinter, you give 3% blame to the guy who planted the tree 50 years ago.
 
Gipper said:
Yeah, I saw that token finger-wag you did. I give Democrats 3% of the blame for their handling of the 97% of the blame that Republicans deserve.

Terrific objectivity. I'm sure if you get a splinter, you give 3% blame to the guy who planted the tree 50 years ago.
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No, this is precisely what makes Democrats suck a big wet one: they take a bad idea, or even a passably good one, and by the time they put it through their problem-solving machine they have something considerably worse. There is nothing new about this -- I have had to watch this tortuous process re-enact itself my whole life. So, the democrats being the winners that they are, took universal healthcare and they passed it through healthcare companies, Republicans and, as Fiddytree noted their own more conservative members, you have...ta-da! Obamacare. Everybody gets to butt-patt each other on this.
 
Cardinal said:
I didn't pull those examples out of my ass:



Obama embraces some GOP health care proposals - CNN



Health Care Concessions Irking Liberals - CBS News

So what does it ultimately matter whether Republicans ended up voting for the bill or not? Who knows why democrats made the concessions if they had the votes anyway? The concessions happened. Not voting for the bill doesn't magically rewrite the past.
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The awfulness of Obamacare has nothing to do with whatever minor Repub modifications may have been included.:cool:
 
Jack Hays said:
The awfulness of Obamacare has nothing to do with whatever minor Repub modifications may have been included.:cool:
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Sure, because there's nothing dysfunctional whatsoever about nearly all the red states opting out of the new health mandate.
 
Cardinal said:
Sure, because there's nothing dysfunctional whatsoever about nearly all the red states opting out of the new health mandate.
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The option was included in the law. The more devastating flaws are likely to be that healthy young people will prefer to pay the fine rather than buy the insurance, and employers will let people go rather than pay the insurance cost.:roll:
 
Jack Hays said:
The option was included in the law. The more devastating flaws are likely to be that healthy young people will prefer to pay the fine rather than buy the insurance, and employers will let people go rather than pay the insurance cost.:roll:
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Which is why we need UHC right away.
 
Cardinal said:
Which is why we need UHC right away.
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Why? Health care is a commodity, just like food, clothing and shelter. We don't have universal federally provided food, clothing and shelter. Why should health care be different?:?:
 
Jack Hays said:
Why? Health care is a commodity, just like food, clothing and shelter. We don't have universal federally provided food, clothing and shelter. Why should health care be different?:?:
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And we're going to have to disagree on that.
 
Jack Hays said:
You believe that health care, uniquely among commodities, should be provided gratis?:eek:
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I think it should be provided equally as we enjoy with military protection.
 
Cardinal said:
I think it should be provided equally as we enjoy with military protection.
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Would you then support the policy and force structure limits on health care that characterize military capability?:thinking
 
Jack Hays said:
Health care is a commodity, like food, clothing and shelter. People can obtain it through purchase or charity, just like food, clothing and shelter. Anything else is theft.:cool:
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No. I don't believe that. The oath they take doesn't mention money or profit at all.
 
cpwill said:
No, this is a democrat plan. They wrote it, they hammered it out amongst themselves. No Republican voted for this idiocy. But I guess we can mark you down for Option #1.



our problems rising costs, people unable to afford insurance have accelerated. Obama went around the country claiming that he was going to reduce family's premiums by $2,500, remember? Instead they went up, and they went up relative to the baseline.



I don't. If you will notice from the link, it's the CBO that says that. Just as it's the IRS that says that thanks to this boondoggle a family is going to face a minimum of a $20,000 expense for health insurance - that's for the bronze plan.
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Not quite true. It isn't about who hammered what out. It is amount the ideas themselves and where they originated. There's a reason Romney was going to keep it.

And you have to prove acceleration and that this reform is the cause. As there is no rational reason for any of those happening due to reform. Mostly this is more wolf crying. But, you do have to do more than just saying what is happening is due to reform.
 
cpwill said:
I don't. If you will notice from the link, it's the CBO that says that. Just as it's the IRS that says that thanks to this boondoggle a family is going to face a minimum of a $20,000 expense for health insurance - that's for the bronze plan.
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Not exactly. Your WT article is the most reliable you posted, and it doesn't quite say that. Perhaps you could link the report itself?
 
Boo Radley said:
Hippocratic oath.
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Ah. Well, carpenters don't swear an oath to seek profit either. Nor do lawyers and engineers. Yet they all expect to make a living. Regardless, the point about health-care-as-a-commodity is not whether health care professionals should be paid, but whether health care consumers should pay for the commodity. Those who produce our food, clothing and shelter are paid for their services. Why not our health care professionals?:fueltofir
 
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