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Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

Who to Blame for Obamacares' Failures?

  • They wil blame Republicans, claiming Obamacare was their idea

    Votes: 24 34.3%

  • They will blame themselves for not pushing single payer

    Votes: 8 11.4%

  • They will blame providers and insurers for attempting to survive

    Votes: 30 42.9%

  • IT WAS THAT VILLIAN, GEORGE BUSH!

    Votes: 33 47.1%
  • Total voters
    70
One of the funniest things is that liberals often bitch about Republicans essentially being for sale by the corporations, but they turn a blinder to what a huge blowjob Obama gave to the insurance lobby over this. Those state health exchanges - do you really think it's going to be a government organization providing that? Nope. Still private coverage. Plus they'll be clustered together by user which is a further attempt to subjugate those on the low end of the spectrum - a real fist job to the slugs. So many people will get the "bronze" package which is essentially comparable to PLPD on your vehicle.

If a Republican did that, he'd be vilified to a level that makes Bush look like Jesus.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I wouldn't jump the gun on insurance companies yet.
The law also allowed more businesses to self insure, rather than buy from the insurance business and more are taking advantage of it.
It allows them to get around some of the legal mandates afford by the PPACA.
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Yeah that's true, but it'll still be costly. Small business health insurance credits will go from 35% to 50% in 2014 when it becomes mandate. I've still talked to a lot of SBOs who say it won't be enough to keep the wolves at bay.

Having said that, it'll still put a lot of people out of work.
 
CanadaJohn said:
It is clear that Obamacare, in its current form, will fail. The question is how long will it take for America and its government to move to a single payer system in order to save the nation's citizens from Obama-care. When the single payer system is instituted, Obamacare will be seen as the vehicle that got you there by forcing your hand. As such, Obama will be seen as the father of the single payer system.

There is a lot wrong with both the delivery of health care and its costs in Canada under our universal, single payer healthcare system, including the fact that much of healthcare now requires the individual to pay, but Tommy Douglas, who was instrumental in its inception in the early 1960's, is still deified here as the father of medicare.
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So what, under these green heavens , can possibly be wrong with requiring patients to pay a reasonable fee for their health costs ??
The idea behind all of this legislation is to have AFFORDABLE health care.
Germany has been working on their system for a century plus....Canada should do the same...and we are nearly a half century behind the Canadians......
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I wouldn't jump the gun on insurance companies yet.
The law also allowed more businesses to self insure, rather than buy from the insurance business and more are taking advantage of it.
It allows them to get around some of the legal mandates afford by the PPACA.
Click to expand...

We'll see said the blind man. Some states won't allow for Exchanges to be created. The current laws that allow Insurance companies to maintain a very tight grip on the American people MUST CHANGE to expand competition.
 
Removable Mind said:
We'll see said the blind man. Some states won't allow for Exchanges to be created. The current laws that allow Insurance companies to maintain a very tight grip on the American people MUST CHANGE to expand competition.
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I'm not sure that states will win that fight because of some morphism of the FF&C clause. Instead, what they'll do is create their exchanges with coverage that is so bad that it's essentially a dead dog.

BCBS has been doing something like this for a while on their own.
 
earthworm said:
So what, under these green heavens , can possibly be wrong with requiring patients to pay a reasonable fee for their health costs ??
The idea behind all of this legislation is to have AFFORDABLE health care.
Germany has been working on their system for a century plus....Canada should do the same...and we are nearly a half century behind the Canadians......
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There's nothing wrong with that - there is, however, something wrong with the government forcing its citizens to go into the market and purchase a product/service that they either don't want or feel they don't need.

Maybe you like public transit - should the government be able to force the car driving public to go out and buy a monthly transit pass simply because it makes it cheaper to provide public transportation to those who use it and can't afford it?

There's a big difference between forcing someone to buy a product and progressively taxing the public to fund a healthcare system that provides the same services and benefits to all citizens regardless of their station in life.
 
Your Star said:
This, I don't believe it will fail, so I can't vote in your poll.
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Yes, you have to define "failure"

I think, for example, that Obamacare is one of the most damaging pieces of legislation in modern history - because it is based on misdiagnosis of the (serious) disease and then treating it with a wrong medicine, at an absurd expense - while effectively blocking the way for much-needed real reforms that would have a chance of rescuing the health care market and could start decreasing real cost of medical services and products.

But if someone thinks that all we need to do is force "coverage" over everybody's head....Sure, you can declare nominal success at some point (leaving it to the IRS to chase coverage-dodgers around).
 
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I thought ACA kicked in January 1, 2014? How can it be a failure before it starts?
 
Heebie Jeebie said:
What is negative about pointing out a fact?

"Once a problem limited to rural areas, the doctor shortage is now hitting large population centers such as Las Vegas and Detroit where people are forced to wait weeks or months or travel hundreds of miles for care. Nationwide, there is a shortage of more than 13,000 doctors, according to the Association of American Medical Colleges, a Washington-based nonprofit that represents medical schools.

That shortfall is expected to grow 10-fold to 130,000 doctors within 12 years as the U.S. population ages and 30 million more people are added to insurance rolls under the 2010 health-care law, the medical college association said."

Doctor Shortage Spreading in U.S. Presaged in Las Vegas - Bloomberg
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Heebie, I see you not as a conservative...that was a generalized statement from me about the right wing extremists...that they are, IMO, negative..
So many "facts" are presented here, only to be opinions.....
The "doctor" shortage ?
All many people need is a nurse or a nurse practioner...the VA employs these people , and they do a nice job....maybe the VA is more advanced than private medical care ???
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
I thought ACA kicked in January 1, 2014? How can it be a failure before it starts?
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Technically that's true. I'm sure they were all raving about "New Coke" when it was reaching final testing in Atlanta and hadn't hit shelves yet.

However, everyone except the radical left can see the eventual facepalm coming from this upon implementation.
 
Gipper said:
I'm not sure that states will win that fight because of some morphism of the FF&C clause. Instead, what they'll do is create their exchanges with coverage that is so bad that it's essentially a dead dog.

BCBS has been doing something like this for a while on their own.
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Well, Gip...as the old saying goes, "No matter where we go...there they are." ObamaCare...or any other type of reform is a dead dog. Reforms are design to sooth the angry beast (We the Folks). They haven't been, nor will they be designed, to remedy problems. Remedying problems would require doing the right thing and stepping on toes.
 
Removable Mind said:
Well, Gip...as the old saying goes, "No matter where we go...there they are." ObamaCare...or any other type of reform is a dead dog. Reforms are design to sooth the angry beast (We the Folks). They haven't been, nor will they be designed, to remedy problems. Remedying problems would require doing the right thing and stepping on toes.
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Very astute post, and I agree. I'm not sure if single-payer is the best of what's out there (I'm inclined to think it isn't, but it's conjecture), but I know what we have is not perfect, and I envision what will happen to be the WRONG way. Now, I don't know what the RIGHT way is, but I'm about 99.99% sure that this is not it. We do require a remedy, but I think it was arrogant pandering by Obama to try and sell this to the gullible populace as the fix to the problem.

Maybe one day we'll find the best of what's around, but until then the search continues.
 
earthworm said:
Heebie, I see you not as a conservative...that was a generalized statement from me about the right wing extremists...that they are, IMO, negative..
So many "facts" are presented here, only to be opinions.....
The "doctor" shortage ?
All many people need is a nurse or a nurse practioner...the VA employs these people , and they do a nice job....maybe the VA is more advanced than private medical care ???
Click to expand...

There is a nursing personnel shortage as well. Has been for some time. It's not getting better. Btw, many of the VA hospitals are training hospitals, that's why they tend to have the personnel.
 
earthworm said:
Heebie, I see you not as a conservative...that was a generalized statement from me about the right wing extremists...that they are, IMO, negative..
So many "facts" are presented here, only to be opinions.....
The "doctor" shortage ?
All many people need is a nurse or a nurse practioner...the VA employs these people , and they do a nice job....maybe the VA is more advanced than private medical care ???
Click to expand...

I just don't see how you can add millions of people without increasing the number of doctors and expect healthcare to improve. There are millions of nurses and nurse practiticioners already in the field and there are shortages of them to. You can only pile so much on them.
 
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Also he has to remember that NPs are not stand-alones. Well, neither are nurses, but that's another story. Nurse practitioners can do almost anything an MD can, but they still have to be under the watch of an MD, and it's not like House. You can't supervise dozens of NPs with one MD. I would say that the most NPs you'd ever see operating under the umbrella of an MD is 3, because he's still ultimately responsible.
 
CanadaJohn said:
There's nothing wrong with that - there is, however, something wrong with the government forcing its citizens to go into the market and purchase a product/service that they either don't want or feel they don't need.

Maybe you like public transit - should the government be able to force the car driving public to go out and buy a monthly transit pass simply because it makes it cheaper to provide public transportation to those who use it and can't afford it?

There's a big difference between forcing someone to buy a product and progressively taxing the public to fund a healthcare system that provides the same services and benefits to all citizens regardless of their station in life.
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Similar to our social security....which was "forced" upon our people, a century ago ??
The thing is, the masses (like me) are simply not that good at making wise decision regarding retirement and health care...and we are the majority of the population...The rich, generally do not have to consider such things , I guess...
So, what I am saying is that the "people" do not completely know what they need for their lifetime..
As with social security retirement, health care should be paid into for a long time (50 years or so)..
Transportation has nothing to do with this, individual or mass...
No, we should not have to "buy" a "product" or service, taxes will do....I am against insurance...
 
earthworm said:
A "like", even if I disagree.....possibily valid points...
Hopefully, the Obama-care is patterned after VA care, which is, I believe, subsidized by our government.
The VA care is good and affordable, IMO.
Only a fool or a hypochrondiac would abuse it...I imagine that this does happen on occasion, , but each medical visit costs and takes valuable time..
As to running out of doctors.....this is dubious at best....but I have not seen a "doctor " in years..The "nurse practitioners" have taken over..

What I wonder about is this - why must conservatives be so negative about things ??
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I beg to differ about VA care. It takes months to get care, they are backlogged by claims, they "lose" paperwork all the time, and if you don't have a comma or period on paperwork where it should be, they kick it back to you after months of it being in the pile. All of this is going to sound very familiar to all Americans soon. Sure, the care is decent once you actually get to see a doctor. But that's the issue, getting to see the doctor.
 
Heebie Jeebie said:
I just don't see how you can add millions of people without increasing the number of doctors and expect healthcare to improve. There are millions of nurses and nurse practiticioners already in the field and there are shortages of them to. You can only pile so much on them.
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We could just allow these "millions" to suffer and die.....this seems to be what the conservatives want ...???
Or, we could force our health care system to be more efficient...another word for reform and improvement.
More opinion...if maufacturing was health care...we would be paying $100,000 for Model T Fords......and this (indirectly, of course) is my experience.
 
earthworm said:
We could just allow these "millions" to suffer and die.....this seems to be what the conservatives want ...???
Or, we could force our health care system to be more efficient...another word for reform and improvement.
More opinion...if maufacturing was health care...we would be paying $100,000 for Model T Fords......and this (indirectly, of course) is my experience.
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Do we currently have millions suffering and dying from lack of available health care?
 
humbolt said:
Do we currently have millions suffering and dying from lack of available health care?
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I think the answer is obvious. Just this weekend on C-Span's Washington Journal an article claimed that up 100's of thousands , (I think it was 170,000) families faced homelessness if the automatic budget cuts went into effect because their subsidized rent will be cut. I am sure there is a whole army of government agents just waiting to go throw them out into the streets. It is nothing the political scare tactics.
 
Neosteve said:
I think the answer is obvious. Just this weekend on C-Span's Washington Journal an article claimed that up 100's of thousands , (I think it was 170,000) families faced homelessness if the automatic budget cuts went into effect because their subsidized rent will be cut. I am sure there is a whole army of government agents just waiting to go throw them out into the streets. It is nothing the political scare tactics.
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I agree Steve. That we will always have such problems is not an excuse to do nothing. But when the cure is worse than the disease, maybe we should step back and reconsider the cure. The weight of Obamacare is just too much to carry.
 
They will probably blame the practitioners and insurance companies, maybe Bush as well.

The only way I see the Dems blaming themselves is if they take a standpoint of "we weren't liberal enough."

Some things in Obamacare are ok, but it should still be repealed and replaced.
 
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