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Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

Who to Blame for Obamacares' Failures?

  • They wil blame Republicans, claiming Obamacare was their idea

    Votes: 24 34.3%

  • They will blame themselves for not pushing single payer

    Votes: 8 11.4%

  • They will blame providers and insurers for attempting to survive

    Votes: 30 42.9%

  • IT WAS THAT VILLIAN, GEORGE BUSH!

    Votes: 33 47.1%
  • Total voters
    70
humbolt said:
Boo Radley: "I suspect your overrate our quality. I think you want me to address the myth and not the reality. Our healthcare is quite good for the wealthy, but not as good for everyone else." ..........I don't believe it's a myth at all. I recently had surgery at a local hospital. No one asked me how much money I have. The care was excellent. I don't think I would've received any better care at a more renowned or upscale facility. I generally don't pay much attention to the fact checker groups because they all seem to have a particular agenda they wish to support. I prefer to do my own. Sorry for the departure from form here. I'm new here, and don't have all the features down pat yet. This is a nice site. I'm out for the night. Have a good evening.
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I thought this was pretty good as well:

Health Costs: How the U.S. Compares With Other Countries | PBS NewsHour
 
Boo Radley said:
They wouldn't have done the surgery outside the ER absent ability to pay. So there was a payer somewhere.

Also, no single persons experience is enough. You have to look at overall numbers to get a overall picture.

Anyway, welcome to the site.
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depends on the surgery I think. They are still subject to their standards of care and if they do not treat you they have to transfer you to somewhere that will take you or treat you if it is necessary. Worse than eating the cost of a surgery is a wrongful death verdict when you send someone home and they croak or if they suffer some irreparable harm and come after you. I have known several people who had surgeries/hospitalizations with no insurance.
 
In 2014 Repubs will run against Obamacare and Dems will desperately run from it. Entertainment value will be off the charts.:2rofll:
 
Fisher said:
depends on the surgery I think. They are still subject to their standards of care and if they do not treat you they have to transfer you to somewhere that will take you or treat you if it is necessary. Worse than eating the cost of a surgery is a wrongful death verdict when you send someone home and they croak or if they suffer some irreparable harm and come after you. I have known several people who had surgeries/hospitalizations with no insurance.
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Largely though the ER. Or of the type that is life threatening, which is really the same thing.
 
Boo Radley said:
Largely though the ER. Or of the type that is life threatening, which is really the same thing.
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Yes. I have known a couple folks who did it through one day surgery. My hospital used to be pretty loose with that stuff though---they would just sue you and turn you over to a collection company that would call you 8 times a day until you set up a payment plan or declared bankruptcy.
 
Jack Hays said:
In 2014 Repubs will run against Obamacare and Dems will desperately run from it. Entertainment value will be off the charts.:2rofll:
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How'd that work in 2012? Might I suggest getting a better candidate than democrats have. I think that would be more effective. :shrug:
 
Fisher said:
Yes. I have known a couple folks who did it through one day surgery. My hospital used to be pretty loose with that stuff though---they would just sue you and turn you over to a collection company that would call you 8 times a day until you set up a payment plan or declared bankruptcy.
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Yep. A lot of help that.:doh
 
Boo Radley said:
They wouldn't have done the surgery outside the ER absent ability to pay. So there was a payer somewhere.

Also, no single persons experience is enough. You have to look at overall numbers to get a overall picture.

Anyway, welcome to the site.
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Oh, I paid the bill myself. I realize my experience is anecdotal, but I know plenty of folks with similar experiences, and they include the self-insured, those with insurance, and those with nothing. None of them were treated in the ER. I understand that in more densely and highly populated areas the practice you describe does go on sometimes. That's one reason among many why I chose not to live in such areas. Anyway, it's time for me to retire. Good night.
 
cpwill said:
Should note - this poll is prefaced upon the assumption that at some point the ability to deny what is happening will break, and they will have to blame somebody.
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LOL Ass of you and me? And that's why I won't vote. You do know that healthcare insurance costs are already increasing less then they have in 15 years? Or that Obamacare has already lowered our deficit projections by $200 billion? Your wishcasting is not working and soon Obamacare will join SS and Medicare to complete another of FDR's promises from so long ago.

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health. Better late than never.

We will all be better off, even the naysayers. That's how we roll. Your welcome.

Group health benefits costs are projected to rise in the first half of 2013 at their slowest rate in more than a decade, according to a study by New York-based Buck Consultants L.L.C.

Buck's survey of 123 insurers and benefits administrators, released on Monday, indicated that group health care plan cost increases through June 2013 will be between 0.2% and 0.6% lower than they were in the first half of this year.

The study noted that 2012 was the first year since 2001 that group health benefit costs were projected to grow at a rate of less than 10%.
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http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20121219/NEWS03/121219869


In figures released last week, the Congressional Budget Office said it had erased hundreds of billions of dollars in projected spending on Medicare and Medicaid. The budget office now projects that spending on those two programs in 2020 will be about $200 billion, or 15 percent, less than it projected three years ago. New data also show overall health care spending growth continuing at the lowest rate in decades for a fourth consecutive year.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/us/politics/sharp-slowdown-in-us-health-care-costs.html?_r=0
 
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Cardinal said:
Some of the concessions were to back away from allowing the government to compete with health insurance providers (that was Charles Grassley's work)
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This is where I stopped wondering if I needed to take this reply seriously. The Public Option was killed by Democrat Joe Lieberman.

allow states to opt out of the program; commit $50 million to fund state initiatives designed to reduce medical malpractice costs; allow undercover investigations of health care providers receiving Medicare, Medicaid and other federal programs; and to boost Medicaid reimbursements to doctors in certain states.
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all this? is crap. These things indeed did exist in the bill - they were buy-offs to democrat senators to get them to vote for this hunk of junk. The Louisiana Purchase and the Cornhusker Kickback weren't to Republicans. They were to Democrats. Not a single Republican got concessions because not a single Republican voted for this disaster of a piece of legislation.
 
Boo Radley said:
Not quite true. It isn't about who hammered what out. It is amount the ideas themselves and where they originated.
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Really. So Democrats are willing to own up to the fact that they propose raising the minimum wage because they hate black people? I mean, if we're going to talk about where ideas originated.....

In RealityLand, however, no. This piece of crap is 100% the Democrats fault. It was negotiated wholly and completely within the Democrat Caucus, and passed without a single Republican vote or even a serious attempt to get a single Republican vote.
 
iguanaman said:
You do know that healthcare insurance costs are already increasing less then they have in 15 years?
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Isn't that usually credited to the economic issues we are having and expected to change with the economy?
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
Isn't that usually credited to the economic issues we are having and expected to change with the economy?
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Also the more something costs the lower the percentage increase usually is. If something is going up $1000/year it and it stays that way for years why would anyone use a percentage increase as an example of how something is working to control costs?
 
cpwill said:
Really. So Democrats are willing to own up to the fact that they propose raising the minimum wage because they hate black people? I mean, if we're going to talk about where ideas originated.....

In RealityLand, however, no. This piece of crap is 100% the Democrats fault. It was negotiated wholly and completely within the Democrat Caucus, and passed without a single Republican vote or even a serious attempt to get a single Republican vote.
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I realize you don't want your party to own their own ideas, but these ideas were in fact republican ideas. Sorry.
 
Boo Radley said:
I realize you don't want your party to own their own ideas, but these ideas were in fact republican ideas. Sorry.
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So are you saying that if by some miracle the program succeeds it is because of the Republicans and they should get the credit?
 
Heebie Jeebie said:
So are you saying that if by some miracle the program succeeds it is because of the Republicans and they should get the credit?
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It would have been their ideas, yes. That doesn't change. Democrats will merely get credit or blame for implementing those ideas.
 
If it's successful, Republicans will credit Mitt Romney; If it fails, Republicans will a) blame Obama and Democrats; b) conveniently erase from all memory what a mess the health care system is NOW; c) conveniently forget their argument that Romney's fab-yoo state plan is way different from a federal plan.
 
Boo Radley said:
I realize you don't want your party to own their own ideas, but these ideas were in fact republican ideas. Sorry.
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:lol: sorry, but no. This P.O.S. is 100% owned by the Democrats. Not a single Republican voted for it. This one is all you guys. :)
 
cpwill said:
:lol: sorry, but no. This P.O.S. is 100% owned by the Democrats. Not a single Republican voted for it. This one is all you guys. :)
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Not the issue. The ideas, not the vote, were republican in origin. Sorry.
 
Boo Radley said:
Not the issue.
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It is indeed the issue. Twas Democrats that made this law, not Republicans. They are accountable for A) the fact that they thought this would work and B) their actions in turning it into law.

The ideas, not the vote, were republican in origin.
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that is actually not terribly accurate. Romneycare was - what - 27 pages? Obamacare was.... 2000? Let's just say some stuff got added in ;)
 
Boo Radley said:
Not the issue. The ideas, not the vote, were republican in origin. Sorry.
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The idea behind the Emancipation Proclamation was Republican too but the Republicans are still cast as a racist bunch.
 
cpwill said:
It is indeed the issue. Twas Democrats that made this law, not Republicans. They are accountable for A) the fact that they thought this would work and B) their actions in turning it into law.



that is actually not terribly accurate. Romneycare was - what - 27 pages? Obamacare was.... 2000? Let's just say some stuff got added in ;)
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No, it isn't. And page number doesn't change it. Nearly every idea had a republican root to it. Blame democrats for borrowing from them if you want. Blame them for implementing their ideas. But the ideas were from republicans.
 
Boo Radley said:
No, it isn't. And page number doesn't change it. Nearly every idea had a republican root to it. Blame democrats for borrowing from them if you want. Blame them for implementing their ideas. But the ideas were from republicans.
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:) So we will put boo down for a vote for "blame Republicans for the actions of Democrats".

Why, I'll bet that that congitive dissonance doesn't even hurt any more, does it, eh? :) ;)
 
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