View Poll Results: Who to Blame for Obamacares' Failures?

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  • They wil blame Republicans, claiming Obamacare was their idea

    57 44.19%
  • They will blame themselves for not pushing single payer

    29 22.48%
  • They will blame providers and insurers for attempting to survive

    60 46.51%
  • IT WAS THAT VILLIAN, GEORGE BUSH!

    63 48.84%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

  1. #71
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    .... the CBO is deceptive because they don't tell you what you want to hear. Classic ad sourcinem by Redress.

    Here's a deception for you: "If you like your insurance, you can keep it." That was deceptive as the man knew that it was crap when he said it. I would believe he has been honestly surprised by the fact that he's bent the cost-curve up, though. Give the man honest credit for his beliefs.



    Gonna be fun watching ya'll deal with this slow self-dismemberment. Little bit of schadenfreude in all of us.
    You did not link to the CBO report. You never do. They tend to say things you might not want to hear, so you link to people telling you the parts of the CBO report that are more palatable to you, even if that might lack context, or be flat our wrong. Me, I am not afraid of raw data, and don't need some one to tell me what to think about it. That is why I link to actual CBO reports, and not editorials. For example:
    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...getOutlook.pdf
    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...ageEffects.pdf

    So, things like the 7 million losing coverage, that is not the whole story. In point of fact, the whole story is much more complex. CBO projects that in 2013, 154 million will have insurance through an employer. By 2023, that number is going to be 167 million. Hrmmmmmm... Total insured in 2013, 272 million , in 2023, 288 million. There is even a nice little footnote to explain the employer insurance number:

    The change in employment-based coverage is the net result of increases in and losses of offers of health insurance from employers and changes in enrollment by workers and their families. For example, in 2019,
    an estimated 12 million people who would have had an offer of employment-based coverage under prior law will lose their offer under current law, and another 3 million people will have an offer of
    employment-based coverage but will enroll in health insurance from another source instead. These flows out of employment-based coverage will be partially offset by an estimated 7 million people who will
    newly enroll in employment-based coverage under the Affordable Care Act.
    So, don't trust people who link to editorials, and then claim they are referencing CBO reports. There is good and bad with Obamacare, and overall I do not like it. But since it isn't even fully ****ing implemented yet, I am not going to go all out scare tactics to try and convince people it must be bad. The irony in this case is the person using scare tactics is the same guy who cryed about them(and rightfully), during the discussion of Paul Ryan's proposed changes to Medicare. How quick they move to all out hypocrisy.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  2. #72
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    It will fail because there aren't enough doctors to handle millions of new patients. The only thing it will be successful at is providing less healthcare.
    Those people are being treated by doctors. Just being uninsured does not mean you don't get treated. Guess who pays those bills....
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Anybody that expects a political "promise" to achieve 100% of the purported goals, is not being realistic. I'm trying to think of even one time that such a thing has happened. Just as you can't fool all the people all the time, you can't satisfy all the people all the time.

    A much simpler approach would have created an insurance company of last resort underwritten by the USG. By using a simpler approach, there would not have been as much opportunity to reward thoose who were due a reward for their influence and donations. Thats the case with all legislation.

    So, the real answer won't be known for years, if ever. Some people will be happy, some will be furious.

    As for Part D, of course, anybody on Medicare saves quite a lot of money on their prescription drugs. So, what;s not to like if you're a senior. It also gave the Pharma industry a sweetheart deal on pricing, so they can add fabulous profits to their bottom line at the taxpayers expense. So, again, is this a success or a failure? Neither or both?
    As for Part D, it is another level of bureaucracy. I would classify it as neither a success or a failure at this point in time.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I choose number 1, blame the Republicans but not for the reason you stated or give. They will blame the Republicans for not fixing all the glitches that comes up. Stating the Republicans failed to fix the broken pieces of Obama care because they still want to repeal and do not want to make it work as intended.
    Oddly, this related to one of my biggest beefs with Obamacare. The proper way to reform anything as big as the US healthcare system is incrementally, small steps, see what happens, fix them, and then more small steps.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  5. #75
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Exactly my point about Obamacare. Success and/or failure is highly subjective.


    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    As for Part D, it is another level of bureaucracy. I would classify it as neither a success or a failure at this point in time.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Anybody that expects a political "promise" to achieve 100% of the purported goals, is not being realistic. I'm trying to think of even one time that such a thing has happened. Just as you can't fool all the people all the time, you can't satisfy all the people all the time.
    Your confusing satisfaction with success... As the President, or any politician for that matter, you shouldnt make promises you cant keep. Obviously with opposition in the government, not everything will pan out, but COST is a pretty big thing to be wrong about. And that cant be blamed on the opposition, it can be blamed on it being a bad idea. This bill isnt designes to satisfy people, its designed to do something it just cant do, and that is was makes it a failure.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    They'll blame Romney saying that Obama was lead astray by Romneycare.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Exactly my point about Obamacare. Success and/or failure is highly subjective.
    Trillions in debt and health care similar to bread lines in the Soviet Union. I'd like to know how that's subjective, unless you're just putting the MSNBC spin on this.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Oddly, this related to one of my biggest beefs with Obamacare. The proper way to reform anything as big as the US healthcare system is incrementally, small steps, see what happens, fix them, and then more small steps.
    What you state would probably have been the ideal way. But the Democrats have been trying to push a massive health care bill through congress for as long as I remember and I go back to IKE. After 2008 elections, I think the Democrats looked at the results, a Democratic President, a House that was overwhelmingly Democratic and a Senate where they controlled 59 or 60 seats. I think they decided it was now or never as they probably wouldn't have another filibuster proof or near filibuster proof senate any time soon. They rushed and threw Obama-care together to take advantage of what is/was probably their only real chance with a congress so overwhelmingly Democratic.

    I really do not know if Obama Care is a good thing or not. I do know I didn't like the way it was passed, Pelosi saying you have to pass the bill first to know what is in it. A senate that used whips, threats and bribes to get members of their own party to go along. It all stunk, what happened to passing a bill because of its merit?
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Exactly my point about Obamacare. Success and/or failure is highly subjective.
    Agree.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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