View Poll Results: Who to Blame for Obamacares' Failures?

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  • They wil blame Republicans, claiming Obamacare was their idea

    57 44.19%
  • They will blame themselves for not pushing single payer

    29 22.48%
  • They will blame providers and insurers for attempting to survive

    60 46.51%
  • IT WAS THAT VILLIAN, GEORGE BUSH!

    63 48.84%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

  1. #61
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    That's nice, but single payer was off the table BEFORE any congressional discussion began and it was taken off the table by Obama himself (Pelosi played along, lying about it all the way of course).
    I'm not sure how you think this contradicts anything I said. As I said, any concessions to insurance companies would by definition take us away from uhc. Any elements that remained were further diminished by concessions to Republicans.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I'm not sure how you think this contradicts anything I said.
    You position is that republicans had, at the very least, a hand in the death of UHC consideration. They didn't even have the chance to oppose it - it wasn't on the table from the get-go. Why, because Obama had already met closed door with insurance execs and negotiated for no single payer in return for their (industry) support of the bill.

    The republicans actually have clean hands in this matter (this time). They did not kill single-payer/UHC and had no part in killing it here.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    You position is that republicans had, at the very least, a hand in the death of UHC consideration. They didn't even have the chance to oppose it - it wasn't on the table from the get-go. Why, because Obama had already met closed door with insurance execs and negotiated for no single payer in return for their (industry) support of the bill.

    The republicans actually have clean hands in this matter (this time). They did not kill single-payer/UHC and had no part in killing it here.
    No, that's not what I said.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Ah, well, no it isn't. To be sure, it looks pretty lame. Far too complicated to comprehend and too much bureaucratic power given to allow anyone to determine the outcome.

    Also, what is "failure"? Nobody seems to know the outcome. For example, GW Bush initiated Medicare Part D. Was this a success or a failure? Even after all these years, it's hard to say one way or the other. Certainly its been good for some - but is it good overall? It certainly isn't cheap for the USG.

    If I had written Obamacare, it would have been 50 pages, not 2000. Just like the tax code, theres plenty of special favors packaged in there. So, is the Tax Code a success or a failure?



    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    That’s a foregone conclusion.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Right, so. Obamacare is now bending the cost-curve up, millions are going to lose their health insurance, the IRS is saying that the cheapest plan under Obamacares' exchanges will cost $20,000 for a family of five by 2016 and increase out of pocket costs even AFTER the subsidies, the hundreds of billions in cuts to Medicare to fund the program will cause many doctors to stop taking Medicare patients, and if we don't make those cuts to providers, then the costs of Obamacare, which are already rising, to explode. 26 States are refusing to work with HHS, and Obamacare's implementation, already well behind track threatens to fall further and further behind even as it is announced that they will not, actually, technically, so-to-speak, be able to help the people the bill was purported to aid.




    So. As this disaster of a behemoth of a bill continues to flail and fail, who are the Democrats going to blame? How far down the rabbit hole are they willing to go, ears plugged, eyes closed?
    I choose number 1, blame the Republicans but not for the reason you stated or give. They will blame the Republicans for not fixing all the glitches that comes up. Stating the Republicans failed to fix the broken pieces of Obama care because they still want to repeal and do not want to make it work as intended.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Obamacare is a terrible law and a terrible plan, with numerous highly negative unintended consequences embedded within it. By 2014 Repubs will be enthusiastically running against Obamacare while Dems will desperately run from it. The irony will be entertaining.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Ah, well, no it isn't. To be sure, it looks pretty lame. Far too complicated to comprehend and too much bureaucratic power given to allow anyone to determine the outcome.

    Also, what is "failure"? Nobody seems to know the outcome. For example, GW Bush initiated Medicare Part D. Was this a success or a failure? Even after all these years, it's hard to say one way or the other. Certainly its been good for some - but is it good overall? It certainly isn't cheap for the USG.

    If I had written Obamacare, it would have been 50 pages, not 2000. Just like the tax code, theres plenty of special favors packaged in there. So, is the Tax Code a success or a failure?

    From what I can tell there is about as many people who like Part D as hate it. The tax is designed to illicit certain behavior from its citizens. It does raise revenue, so it isn't a complete failure and one can debate how much these special favors, tax incentives really drive the people in the direction government wants them to go. I wouldn't call the tax system a success either as it is clumsy and not very efficient in it ultimate goal. Obama care, the jury is still out, most of the good stuff has all ready kicked in, most of the bad stuff yet to come. But looking at the polls, right after Obama care was passed, 58% wanted it repealed, 39% did not. As of 7-11 Feb 2013, the latest poll shows 49% still favor repeal, 46% do not. Is Obama care catching on or has the numbers dropped, those favoring repeal only because they have decided that repeal isn't coming?
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  8. #68
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    No, we should not have to "buy" a "product" or service, taxes will do....I am against insurance...
    Perhaps you fail to realize that even in a universal healthcare environment like Canada's most employers provide their employees with additional healthcare insurance and many individuals and families also purchase additional coverage. While we pay a great deal in taxes to provide for our government funded healthcare, the costs are becoming prohibitive and the government is delisting benefits and services yearly. Our healthcare provides generous coverage for the poorest of our citizens, such as those on welfare. Our healthcare does not provide drug coverage, except for those under 18 and over 65. Our healthcare doesn't cover dental care, for any age. Our healthcare does not provide eyecare, except for those under 18 and over 65. Many drugs are not covered, even for those under 18 and over 65. Many Canadians, who have the means or who have additional healthcare insurance, travel to the US to receive either quicker care or care that the Canadian government does not approve or provide.

    When the government provides for all, all often receive inferior care. Particularly if some view care as a right to be exercised without concern or serious need and jam up the works for those who are actually sick and need care.

    All that said, I've never been "sick" in my 6 decades on the planet but I am very grateful that if I did become seriously ill my basic life needs would be provided without bankrupting me and my family.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Ah, well, no it isn't. To be sure, it looks pretty lame. Far too complicated to comprehend and too much bureaucratic power given to allow anyone to determine the outcome.

    Also, what is "failure"? Nobody seems to know the outcome. For example, GW Bush initiated Medicare Part D. Was this a success or a failure? Even after all these years, it's hard to say one way or the other. Certainly its been good for some - but is it good overall? It certainly isn't cheap for the USG.

    If I had written Obamacare, it would have been 50 pages, not 2000. Just like the tax code, theres plenty of special favors packaged in there. So, is the Tax Code a success or a failure?
    If Obamacare fails to live up to the promises Obama made, then its a failure. Seems pretty simple to me. He promised it would cover every American and that it would lower prices and its now obvious that it will do neither.

  10. #70
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Anybody that expects a political "promise" to achieve 100% of the purported goals, is not being realistic. I'm trying to think of even one time that such a thing has happened. Just as you can't fool all the people all the time, you can't satisfy all the people all the time.

    A much simpler approach would have created an insurance company of last resort underwritten by the USG. By using a simpler approach, there would not have been as much opportunity to reward thoose who were due a reward for their influence and donations. Thats the case with all legislation.

    So, the real answer won't be known for years, if ever. Some people will be happy, some will be furious.

    As for Part D, of course, anybody on Medicare saves quite a lot of money on their prescription drugs. So, what;s not to like if you're a senior. It also gave the Pharma industry a sweetheart deal on pricing, so they can add fabulous profits to their bottom line at the taxpayers expense. So, again, is this a success or a failure? Neither or both?


    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    From what I can tell there is about as many people who like Part D as hate it. The tax is designed to illicit certain behavior from its citizens. It does raise revenue, so it isn't a complete failure and one can debate how much these special favors, tax incentives really drive the people in the direction government wants them to go. I wouldn't call the tax system a success either as it is clumsy and not very efficient in it ultimate goal. Obama care, the jury is still out, most of the good stuff has all ready kicked in, most of the bad stuff yet to come. But looking at the polls, right after Obama care was passed, 58% wanted it repealed, 39% did not. As of 7-11 Feb 2013, the latest poll shows 49% still favor repeal, 46% do not. Is Obama care catching on or has the numbers dropped, those favoring repeal only because they have decided that repeal isn't coming?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    If Obamacare fails to live up to the promises Obama made, then its a failure. Seems pretty simple to me. He promised it would cover every American and that it would lower prices and its now obvious that it will do neither.

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