View Poll Results: Who to Blame for Obamacares' Failures?

Voters
129. You may not vote on this poll
  • They wil blame Republicans, claiming Obamacare was their idea

    57 44.19%
  • They will blame themselves for not pushing single payer

    29 22.48%
  • They will blame providers and insurers for attempting to survive

    60 46.51%
  • IT WAS THAT VILLIAN, GEORGE BUSH!

    63 48.84%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 41 of 42 FirstFirst ... 3139404142 LastLast
Results 401 to 410 of 415

Thread: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

  1. #401
    King Conspiratard
    Dr. Chuckles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-14 @ 03:04 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    12,895

    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    ...moreover, the voter will blame the Republicans, banishing them to a second rate party as this did (with modest exception) for the 20 years after the introduction of social security and 20 years after the introduction of Medicare. Once again, the Cons will be on the wrong side of history (you know, in their comfort zone)

    Perhaps one day the Cons will understand that political relevancy is about having original ideas, rather than thinking that choosing only impede the good ideas of other party is somehow a policy position.
    lol @ recycled center-right policy from the 90's being original. Upsideguy, do you find it ironic that the DNC convinced you to support ****ty conservative policy by simply polishing it with a bit of democratic shoe polish?

  2. #402
    Pragmatic Idealist
    upsideguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Rocky Mtn. High
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,105

    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    lol @ recycled center-right policy from the 90's being original. Upsideguy, do you find it ironic that the DNC convinced you to support ****ty conservative policy by simply polishing it with a bit of democratic shoe polish?
    Yes, I know ObamaCare as we know it was conceived by the Heritage Foundation; well articulated in proposed legislation by Senators Hatch, Chaffee, Grassley (and others with an "R" next to their name); beta tested by a state government led by a Republican governor (..I don't recall his name as he went to political obscurity, but I know he is son of a former Michigan government that once ran American Motors) and finally implemented by the Democrats with all the the Republicans running from their own creation like scared rats.....

    The DNC convinced me of nothing. I have always been in favor of universal healthcare, but we are along way from having such (getting this bastardized plan passed was hard enough), so I get to hold my nose at this.....

    In the long run, however, this will be widely accepted.... which is why the Cons are going apeshi.... now to keep the train from leaving the station.

  3. #403
    King Conspiratard
    Dr. Chuckles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-14 @ 03:04 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    12,895

    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Yes, I know ObamaCare as we know it was conceived by the Heritage Foundation; well articulated in proposed legislation by Senators Hatch, Chaffee, Grassley (and others with an "R" next to their name)
    You really shouldn't get your history from facebook memes: It was center-right policy even then and faced strong opposition from the more conservative branches of the party

    <<<The Times, in a June 23, 1994, story on the later Chafee effort, called it the "moderates’" proposal. The newspaper reported that Sen. Phil Gramm, R-Texas, one of the GOP’s leading conservatives, said that any plan that "got his support and that of most Republicans" would not "guarantee anything." And not having a guarantee of coverage would have meant not having an individual mandate.

    This jibes with the recollections of Gail Wilensky, a health care economist at Project HOPE, an international health foundation. Wilensky directed Medicare and Medicaid from 1990 to 1992 and served as a senior health adviser to President George H.W. Bush.

    "I do not remember Republicans, especially conservative Republicans, embracing individual mandates," Wilensky said.>>>

    PolitiFact | Facebook post says Republicans embraced individual mandate in 1993

    beta tested by a state government led by a Republican governor (..I don't recall his name as he went to political obscurity, but I know he is son of a former Michigan government that once ran American Motors) and finally implemented by the Democrats with all the the Republicans running from their own creation like scared rats.....
    Jesus, talk about your partisan stupidity: Romney was pillared throughout the election by the right for being a RINO and I am likely more progressive on healthcare reform than you are. Who seems to support whatever left overs the DNC is willing to lay in front of you

    The DNC convinced me of nothing. I have always been in favor of universal healthcare, but we are along way from having such (getting this bastardized plan passed was hard enough), so I get to hold my nose at this.....
    Lol, the DNC never even tried to push anything else (why would they when they have supporters like you?), and Obama used the public option as nothing more than a bargaining chip. This is because they knew people like you are as easily manipulated as the republican base

    Truth Emerges about the Public Option : Columbia Journalism Review

    In the long run, however, this will be widely accepted.... which is why the Cons are going apeshi.... now to keep the train from leaving the station.
    As opposed to making an appeal to popularity, I suggest reading up on the systemic issues facing healthcare in Massachusetts, like the lack of participation on the exchanges from full paying healthy adults and the burden placed on small businesses by pooling them with the individual market. Maybe then you might be able to define yourself as a liberal, as opposed to a mindless DNC fanboy cheering for warmed-over alpo from the 90's, that does little more than serve the interests of the insurance industry

    In the long run, however, this will be widely accepted.... which is why the Cons are going apeshi.... now to keep the train from leaving the station.[/QUOTE]

  4. #404
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,114

    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    It looks like Providers and Insurers are going to be the winner:

    Obama blames ‘bad apple insurers’ for canceled insurance plans

    President Obama tried a new tack Wednesday as he fought back against criticism of his Obamacare claims.
    President Barack Obama says he's not "resigned" to a shutdown. (Photo by Mark Wilson/Getty Images)
    President Obama (Photo by Mark Wilson/Getty Images)

    Fact-checkers and journalists have ruled that Obama wasn't being truthful when he claimed that people who liked their insurance could keep it. Obama during a speech in Boston sought to cast the issue Wednesday as trying to weed out "bad apple insurers" who don't provide enough coverage....
    So, here we go.

    ...The administration has set a late November deadline for fixing the Web site.
    Yeah. Good luck with that.

  5. #405
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    56,981

    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It looks like Providers and Insurers are going to be the winner:



    So, here we go.



    Yeah. Good luck with that.


    The reason he ran to MasterChoosIts.....was due to where they were getting working numbers and he has damn near full support of his Ponzi scheme. So he wanted to embellish want benefits his Obamacare will have.

    Notice he didn't hurry to the Carolinas where their insurance has tripled in price.

  6. #406
    Pragmatic Idealist
    upsideguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Rocky Mtn. High
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,105

    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    You really shouldn't get your history from facebook memes: It was center-right policy even then and faced strong opposition from the more conservative branches of the party

    <<<The Times, in a June 23, 1994, story on the later Chafee effort, called it the "moderatesí" proposal. The newspaper reported that Sen. Phil Gramm, R-Texas, one of the GOPís leading conservatives, said that any plan that "got his support and that of most Republicans" would not "guarantee anything." And not having a guarantee of coverage would have meant not having an individual mandate.

    This jibes with the recollections of Gail Wilensky, a health care economist at Project HOPE, an international health foundation. Wilensky directed Medicare and Medicaid from 1990 to 1992 and served as a senior health adviser to President George H.W. Bush.

    "I do not remember Republicans, especially conservative Republicans, embracing individual mandates," Wilensky said.>>>

    PolitiFact | Facebook post says Republicans embraced individual mandate in 1993



    Jesus, talk about your partisan stupidity: Romney was pillared throughout the election by the right for being a RINO and I am likely more progressive on healthcare reform than you are. Who seems to support whatever left overs the DNC is willing to lay in front of you



    Lol, the DNC never even tried to push anything else (why would they when they have supporters like you?), and Obama used the public option as nothing more than a bargaining chip. This is because they knew people like you are as easily manipulated as the republican base

    Truth Emerges about the Public Option : Columbia Journalism Review



    As opposed to making an appeal to popularity, I suggest reading up on the systemic issues facing healthcare in Massachusetts, like the lack of participation on the exchanges from full paying healthy adults and the burden placed on small businesses by pooling them with the individual market. Maybe then you might be able to define yourself as a liberal, as opposed to a mindless DNC fanboy cheering for warmed-over alpo from the 90's, that does little more than serve the interests of the insurance industry

    In the long run, however, this will be widely accepted.... which is why the Cons are going apeshi.... now to keep the train from leaving the station.
    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you for your insults and insolence, generally tools in the debaters arsenal when the arguments are weak. No exception in this case, as your comeback to my suggestion that the Affordable Care Act was:

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Yes, I know ObamaCare as we know it was conceived by the Heritage Foundation; well articulated in proposed legislation by Senators Hatch, Chaffee, Grassley (and others with an "R" next to their name); beta tested by a state government led by a Republican governor (..I don't recall his name as he went to political obscurity, but I know he is son of a former Michigan government that once ran American Motors) and finally implemented by the Democrats with all the the Republicans running from their own creation like scared rats.....

    The DNC convinced me of nothing. I have always been in favor of universal healthcare, but we are along way from having such (getting this bastardized plan passed was hard enough), so I get to hold my nose at this.....

    In the long run, however, this will be widely accepted.... which is why the Cons are going apeshi.... now to keep the train from leaving the station.
    I said they have "Rs" next to their names; not that they were tea baggers. So, your basic retort is that are all RINOs'... which, of course, means they have "R's next to their name.

    Wow! I'm not sure a counter argument could be any weaker. Thank you for your help in establishing the argument. This whole "RINO" thing is the ultimate farce. Let's forget for a moment that the very concept of RINO is quite cute.... but, they are Republicans. Romney, the guy that beta tested Obamacare in Massachusetts, was the the Republican nominee for President less than year ago. Somehow, you think you can stick a "RINO" label on someone, wash your hands of them and re-write history. Sorry, you are only re-writing your fantasy and your fantasy is not an appropriate nor effective counter-argument.

    Of course, we could have a whole discussion about what a RINO is. To me they are those endorsed by the tea party, most of whom are nothing but thugs and idiots, that occupy offices reserved for statesmen and leaders.... child place holders waiting for the adults to show up and govern, but that is another discussion.

    Also, what is cute is your shallow assertion that I get my news from Facebook. Obviously you haven't read to many of my posts, most of which are well supported. Now this thing on Facebook was interesting. If actually spend my time on Facebook, perhaps I would have seen it, but its not a site I frequent. I am glad you do. Perhaps you would like to see some of my sources, including a couple that well articulate how well ObamaCare Romney-style has been accepted in Massachusetts (hint: you'll be impressed)


    Health insurance mandate began as a Republican idea - The Boston Globe
    http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=4896&type=0

    http://www.healthcare.gov/law/timeline/
    Fact-checking Bill Clinton on Medicare
    The irony of Republican disapproval of Obamacare - CSMonitor.com
    PolitiFact | Romney says his health care bill affected far smaller percentage of people than Obama's
    The American Spectator : Obamacare vs. Romneycare -- A Crucial Difference
    The deep irony of Republican disapproval of Obamacare - Baltimore Sun
    History of the Individual Health Insurance Mandate, 1989-2010 - Obamacare / Health Care Laws - ProCon.org
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/10/opinion/10fri4.html

    Your counter argument was surprisingly weak, even by DP standards. Next time, a little more attention to the argument and less to the insults and insolence and maybe youw will make an impression. In the interim, thank you for affirming my original assertion.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 11-01-13 at 12:00 AM.

  7. #407
    King Conspiratard
    Dr. Chuckles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-14 @ 03:04 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    12,895

    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Thank you for your insults and insolence, generally tools in the debaters arsenal when the arguments are weak. No exception in this case, as your comeback to my suggestion that the Affordable Care Act was[/quote]

    lol, don't make snide comments if you don't want them returned chief. Also, it's a little hard to claim the high ground after you tried to take it to the sewer and got dunked for your trouble



    I said they have "Rs" next to their names; not that they were tea baggers. So, your basic retort is that are all RINOs'... which, of course, means they have "R's next to their name.
    You didn't simply comment about them being republicans, but tried to wax on knowledgeably about the republicans turning away from the policy in a modern context, which did little more than betray your ignorence of what it was, who was pushing it, and the fact your knowledge came from 2-bit media sources like facebook

    Wow! I'm not sure a counter argument could be any weaker.
    Is this like the fatkid flexing in the mirro calling himself "beefcake"?


    This whole "RINO" thing is the ultimate farce.
    I didn't call them RINOs, I pointed out that is how they are perceived by the modern GOP. A fact that you overlooked as you were casting the turn against the policy as a politically motivated one, as opposed to a shift in the politics of the party. Something anyone knows that doesn't get their knowledge from facebook memes

    Let's forget for a moment that the very concept of RINO is quite cute.... but, they are Republicans. Romney, the guy that beta tested Obamacare in Massachusetts, was the the Republican nominee for President less than year ago.
    Yes, a guy that was universally hated by the base and only nominated because the march of crazy personalities that comprised a long list of front runners naturally self destructed. So it's odd that anyone would try to cast him as some type of GOP golden boy, as opposed to a candidate of conveniance. Well, anyone with an actual grasp of american politics and the ability to actually read something worth it's type face ...


    Somehow, you think you can stick a "RINO" label on someone, wash your hands of them and re-write history.
    No, I think Romney was largely reviled by the modern incarnation of his own party and had to constantly placate a very vigorous and social conservative base, which he is not, and who hate concepts like the ACA because of some brain dead conception of socialism.

    Honestly, do you even follow politics?

    Sorry, you are only re-writing your fantasy and your fantasy is not an appropriate nor effective counter-argument.
    There isn't much I can say if you're so intellectually stunted that you can't even recall the political realities of last year, because the blogosphere has sold you on some silly narrative about the modern gop

    Of course, we could have a whole discussion about what a RINO is. To me they are those endorsed by the tea party, most of whom are nothing but thugs and idiots, that occupy offices reserved for statesmen and leaders.... child place holders waiting for the adults to show up and govern, but that is another discussion.
    The tea party endorsing RINOs? Again, do you have any concept of the modern political realities of this country?

    Also, what is cute is your shallow assertion that I get my news from Facebook.
    That wasn't an assertion, it's a fact revealed by your argument that the modern GOP would endorse any such bill, based on the nominal backing of center-right fiscal concervatives in the 90's. Such an argument betrays nothing but a shallowness and ignorance in both knowledge and understanding


    Obviously you haven't read to many of my posts, most of which are well supported.
    Whoa, we got a bad-ass here ...

    Now this thing on Facebook was interesting. If actually spend my time on Facebook, perhaps I would have seen it, but its not a site I frequent. I am glad you do. Perhaps you would like to see some of my sources, including a couple that well articulate how well ObamaCare Romney-style has been accepted in Massachusetts (hint: you'll be impressed)
    You're making an appeal to popularity, which does not outline a bill as being a "good thing" (popular=/= effective and sustainable legislation). The entire intent of the law is still to conserve the interest of modern market forces that serve little real need in delivering healthcare. And we already covered how it was center right policy, but that it never had support of the more reactive elements of the now dominate republican base. So I am unsure what repeating the same failed argument, ad nauseum, is suppose to achieve, besides a blatant appeal to authority in an attempt to prop up an already failed argument.

    But if you want to talk about specific issues with Massachusetts healthcare I would be happy to do so, like the lack of cost containment, the shortage of primary care physicians driving ER use, the pooling of the individual market with the small business one, or even lack of participation in the exchanges by healthy full paying adults.

    Just let me know.

  8. #408
    King Conspiratard
    Dr. Chuckles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-14 @ 03:04 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    12,895

    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    PS and since you seemingly forgot, this conversation started because I was lampooning you for calluing the ACA original when it was warmed over **** policy from the center-right

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    lol @ recycled center-right policy from the 90's being original. Upsideguy, do you find it ironic that the DNC convinced you to support ****ty conservative policy by simply polishing it with a bit of democratic shoe polish?

    So it's a little odd that you would not only now argue that it had it';s origins among the right, but use that as a basis to declare some polemic victory here

  9. #409
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,114

    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    PS and since you seemingly forgot, this conversation started because I was lampooning you for calluing the ACA original when it was warmed over **** policy from the center-right

    So it's a little odd that you would not only now argue that it had it';s origins among the right, but use that as a basis to declare some polemic victory here
    There is no Pwnage like Self-Pwnage.




    So, it seems to be shifting a bit in favor of "Insurers" with small dashes of "Republicans", but with the caveat of "Republicans from the 1990s", who apparently traveled forwards in time and forced every 55 year old male to get maternity insurance or lose his coverage.



    Is there anyone out there from this thread months ago who is still willing to argue that Obamacare's rollout might be a success?

  10. #410
    User
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Seen
    @
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    86

    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Every doctor, surgeon, nurse, and PA I know is against it.

Page 41 of 42 FirstFirst ... 3139404142 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •