View Poll Results: Who to Blame for Obamacares' Failures?

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  • They wil blame Republicans, claiming Obamacare was their idea

    57 44.19%
  • They will blame themselves for not pushing single payer

    29 22.48%
  • They will blame providers and insurers for attempting to survive

    60 46.51%
  • IT WAS THAT VILLIAN, GEORGE BUSH!

    63 48.84%
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Thread: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

  1. #31
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    So what, under these green heavens , can possibly be wrong with requiring patients to pay a reasonable fee for their health costs ??
    The idea behind all of this legislation is to have AFFORDABLE health care.
    Germany has been working on their system for a century plus....Canada should do the same...and we are nearly a half century behind the Canadians......
    There's nothing wrong with that - there is, however, something wrong with the government forcing its citizens to go into the market and purchase a product/service that they either don't want or feel they don't need.

    Maybe you like public transit - should the government be able to force the car driving public to go out and buy a monthly transit pass simply because it makes it cheaper to provide public transportation to those who use it and can't afford it?

    There's a big difference between forcing someone to buy a product and progressively taxing the public to fund a healthcare system that provides the same services and benefits to all citizens regardless of their station in life.

  2. #32
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    This, I don't believe it will fail, so I can't vote in your poll.
    Yes, you have to define "failure"

    I think, for example, that Obamacare is one of the most damaging pieces of legislation in modern history - because it is based on misdiagnosis of the (serious) disease and then treating it with a wrong medicine, at an absurd expense - while effectively blocking the way for much-needed real reforms that would have a chance of rescuing the health care market and could start decreasing real cost of medical services and products.

    But if someone thinks that all we need to do is force "coverage" over everybody's head....Sure, you can declare nominal success at some point (leaving it to the IRS to chase coverage-dodgers around).
    Last edited by Cyrylek; 02-18-13 at 12:26 PM.

  3. #33
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    I thought ACA kicked in January 1, 2014? How can it be a failure before it starts?
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  4. #34
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    What is negative about pointing out a fact?

    "Once a problem limited to rural areas, the doctor shortage is now hitting large population centers such as Las Vegas and Detroit where people are forced to wait weeks or months or travel hundreds of miles for care. Nationwide, there is a shortage of more than 13,000 doctors, according to the Association of American Medical Colleges, a Washington-based nonprofit that represents medical schools.

    That shortfall is expected to grow 10-fold to 130,000 doctors within 12 years as the U.S. population ages and 30 million more people are added to insurance rolls under the 2010 health-care law, the medical college association said."

    Doctor Shortage Spreading in U.S. Presaged in Las Vegas - Bloomberg
    Heebie, I see you not as a conservative...that was a generalized statement from me about the right wing extremists...that they are, IMO, negative..
    So many "facts" are presented here, only to be opinions.....
    The "doctor" shortage ?
    All many people need is a nurse or a nurse practioner...the VA employs these people , and they do a nice job....maybe the VA is more advanced than private medical care ???

  5. #35
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    I thought ACA kicked in January 1, 2014? How can it be a failure before it starts?
    Technically that's true. I'm sure they were all raving about "New Coke" when it was reaching final testing in Atlanta and hadn't hit shelves yet.

    However, everyone except the radical left can see the eventual facepalm coming from this upon implementation.

  6. #36
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I'm not sure that states will win that fight because of some morphism of the FF&C clause. Instead, what they'll do is create their exchanges with coverage that is so bad that it's essentially a dead dog.

    BCBS has been doing something like this for a while on their own.
    Well, Gip...as the old saying goes, "No matter where we go...there they are." ObamaCare...or any other type of reform is a dead dog. Reforms are design to sooth the angry beast (We the Folks). They haven't been, nor will they be designed, to remedy problems. Remedying problems would require doing the right thing and stepping on toes.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Well, Gip...as the old saying goes, "No matter where we go...there they are." ObamaCare...or any other type of reform is a dead dog. Reforms are design to sooth the angry beast (We the Folks). They haven't been, nor will they be designed, to remedy problems. Remedying problems would require doing the right thing and stepping on toes.
    Very astute post, and I agree. I'm not sure if single-payer is the best of what's out there (I'm inclined to think it isn't, but it's conjecture), but I know what we have is not perfect, and I envision what will happen to be the WRONG way. Now, I don't know what the RIGHT way is, but I'm about 99.99% sure that this is not it. We do require a remedy, but I think it was arrogant pandering by Obama to try and sell this to the gullible populace as the fix to the problem.

    Maybe one day we'll find the best of what's around, but until then the search continues.

  8. #38
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Heebie, I see you not as a conservative...that was a generalized statement from me about the right wing extremists...that they are, IMO, negative..
    So many "facts" are presented here, only to be opinions.....
    The "doctor" shortage ?
    All many people need is a nurse or a nurse practioner...the VA employs these people , and they do a nice job....maybe the VA is more advanced than private medical care ???
    There is a nursing personnel shortage as well. Has been for some time. It's not getting better. Btw, many of the VA hospitals are training hospitals, that's why they tend to have the personnel.

  9. #39
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Heebie, I see you not as a conservative...that was a generalized statement from me about the right wing extremists...that they are, IMO, negative..
    So many "facts" are presented here, only to be opinions.....
    The "doctor" shortage ?
    All many people need is a nurse or a nurse practioner...the VA employs these people , and they do a nice job....maybe the VA is more advanced than private medical care ???
    I just don't see how you can add millions of people without increasing the number of doctors and expect healthcare to improve. There are millions of nurses and nurse practiticioners already in the field and there are shortages of them to. You can only pile so much on them.
    Last edited by Heebie Jeebie; 02-18-13 at 12:41 PM.
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Also he has to remember that NPs are not stand-alones. Well, neither are nurses, but that's another story. Nurse practitioners can do almost anything an MD can, but they still have to be under the watch of an MD, and it's not like House. You can't supervise dozens of NPs with one MD. I would say that the most NPs you'd ever see operating under the umbrella of an MD is 3, because he's still ultimately responsible.

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