View Poll Results: Who to Blame for Obamacares' Failures?

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  • They wil blame Republicans, claiming Obamacare was their idea

    57 44.19%
  • They will blame themselves for not pushing single payer

    29 22.48%
  • They will blame providers and insurers for attempting to survive

    60 46.51%
  • IT WAS THAT VILLIAN, GEORGE BUSH!

    63 48.84%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

  1. #341
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I see. I made a comment about cpwill's poll back in February and you commented on what I said in September. Didn't remember who made the poll. However, since you commented in the way that you did, you presented that you agree with the poll. Therefore, by proxy, my comment remains on target.

    See, zim... when you stick your nose into these situations, you tend to get it blown off.
    Ah... wrong... but nice try.

    You attribute the poll to me... which wasn't mine and attempted to make an argument from it. Now you're scurrying around trying to cover your ass for blowing that big time.

    You would have done better to have accepted my gracious offer, but no... you keep digging deeper. This has all the marks of Obama all over it. Fark up... and then try a new tactic as cover... one that blows up in your face.



    Your posts bore me zim.
    Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
    Dumb partisan hack statements that have no basis in reality, misrepresent issues, and demonstrate a purposefully complete lack of understanding of basic definitions.
    If it is so easy... why not take a second and kill the arguments? You can't... so you avoid. But you seem to love the underground. Why so shy here? I smell fear.

    Correcting you would be a full time job. I prefer to just allow your posts to stand for themselves and let people evaluate them on their lack of merit. The non-hacks around here recognize them for what they are: inconsequential. In general, zim, you do my work for me.
    More blarney. Ahem... who's correcting who here?

    You've proven you are intellectually bankrupt, and The "Socialism" bit proved it. You failed to face the most obvious bit of reality.

    CC... You're an easy mark, as most Leftists are, and would be picking up your debating teeth all over DP... hence your absence.

    You've engaged me once here in a long while and what happened?

    1. You attributed the OP to the wrong person... and based your argument on it.
    2. Your claim that you don't debate me because back in 2008 I couldn't define "Socialism"... PURE BS.
    3. I define "socialism" and "socialist" for you... yet again... and you obviously don't like the definition, proving once again you're intellectually bankrupt.
    4. You try to twist out of the misappropriated post with further BS.

    ROTFLOL... of course... you'll claim victory. It's the Leftists Way. Fail miserably and claim victory.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  2. #342
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Now that we have straightened out you wrongly attributed the OP and Poll to me... let's straighten out Paragraph 1 of your post once and forever.
    No, I clearly demonstrated that, by proxy, since you agreed with the poll, my post was on target. Trying to distance yourself from an idiotic, partisan poll now won't do you any good. You've already associated yourself with it.

    1. You folks didn't like my definition of Socialist. Why? Perhaps it is because you don't like being associated with a knowingly failed ideology.
    See, this is you making stuff up because you can't debate what actually is the issue. You showed that you didn't know what the definition of the word "socialist" actually is. You attributed it, in a partisan hack and invalid way to things that are not socialist. You were corrected. You have failed to learn that correction and have continued to present an inaccurate definition since. The only fault that is mine is that I have continued to allow you to do this without reminding you of the correction.

    2. You folks claim that because the state does not control the means of production, it's not socialist. That's cute. It's also intellectually bankrupt.
    A party that foments and pushes Socialist legislation, and a party of supporters that propagandize for it... are pushing "Socialism", and are acting like "Socialists". And that IS the behavior of most Demokrats... aka Socialists of Amerika Partei (SAPs). For the mass of Demokrats, there doesn't seem to be a Socialist program or legislation they disapprove of.
    Poor zim. Doesn't understand the concept of overgeneralizing. This is your most common error when you debate. You will take a set of concept, attribute a definition to them, and then overgeneralize, claiming that the entirety of the group in question is defined by your overgeneralization. Here, let me demonstrate:

    Conservatives do not believe in gay marriage.
    Conservatives do not believe in affirmative action.
    Conservatives do not support abortion rights... and therefore do not support the rights of women.
    Not supporting minority groups is discrimination.
    Therefore, conservatives are bigots.

    See what happens when you overgeneralize and you idiotic definitive associations? Your argument looks DUMB. Now, do I believe what I wrote above? Yes and no. I believe that conservatives, in general, believe the first three things... but for a variety of reasons. My fourth line is an incorrect definition and omits the possibility for MANY other reasons that conservatives might believe those things (state's rights, different and valid definitions of both assistance and life, for example). Because the fourth line is incorrect, my fifth line conclusion is illogical. It is also illogical because it overgeneralizes. Now, do I think you will admit to doing this? Nah. You post like a hack and we know from MRI scans that when a hack is confronted with the lack of logic or accuracy of their position, cognitive dissonance sets in and they are unable to accept their errors. So no, I have no illusions that you will listen to anything I say. You can't. It would destroy your entire false belief system. No, I present this so that others will know how you post and how to deal with you.

    3. Because you don't accept my definition:




    So... now that we've cleared that up, and you've been educated... I invite you up here for some more. Don't be shy
    Guess what zim? You still don't know the difference between a socialist government and a government that has some socialist policies. I tried to teach you this way back in a thread in 2009, but you refused to listen... hence your continued inaccurate posting for the past 4 years.

    Keep being wrong and illogical, zim. It's good contrast.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #343
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Ah... wrong... but nice try.

    You attribute the poll to me... which wasn't mine and attempted to make an argument from it. Now you're scurrying around trying to cover your ass for blowing that big time.

    You would have done better to have accepted my gracious offer, but no... you keep digging deeper. This has all the marks of Obama all over it. Fark up... and then try a new tactic as cover... one that blows up in your face.
    Poor zim. Still have problems with interpreting incorrectly what people say. I stated that the poll wasn't yours. I also stated that you agreed with it completely, so by proxy, my positions stand. And they do. You do seem to never tire of being wrong.


    Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
    You could try to improve them, but I don't think that's in your wheelhouse.

    If it is so easy... why not take a second and kill the arguments? You can't... so you avoid. But you seem to love the underground. Why so shy here? I smell fear.
    I already have and have been completely successful. See zim, since your posts are based totally on logical fallacies, all I have to do is present their lack of logic to prove them wrong. And your fallacies are so glaring that doing so takes no effort at all.


    More blarney. Ahem... who's correcting who here?
    I am correcting you. You of course are unwilling to accept that and prefer to remain mistaken. That's OK with me.

    You've proven you are intellectually bankrupt, and The "Socialism" bit proved it. You failed to face the most obvious bit of reality.

    CC... You're an easy mark, as most Leftists are, and would be picking up your debating teeth all over DP... hence your absence.
    I've already explained my absence. Most people who don't debate you, don't because your positions are absurd, dishonest, and illogical. These things define what you write, zim. Whole forum knows it.

    You've engaged me once here in a long while and what happened?
    I easily destroyed you.

    1. You attributed the OP to the wrong person... and based your argument on it.
    This is partially the appeal to logic logical fallacy. I also based my argument on your support for the poll, which I easily proved correct.

    2. Your claim that you don't debate me because back in 2008 I couldn't define "Socialism"... PURE BS.
    No, this is true and since you cannot know my motivations for not debating you until I say them, your opinion on the matter is meaningless.

    That's 2 for 2 you got wrong.

    3. I define "socialism" and "socialist" for you... yet again... and you obviously don't like the definition, proving once again you're intellectually bankrupt.
    Your definitions are irrelevant to how you use them. The fact that you ignore this part of the issue demonstrates your intellectual dishonesty.

    That's 3 for 3 on being wrong.

    4. You try to twist out of the misappropriated post with further BS.
    No, after proving you wrong, I stepped back, admired my work and realized there was little else to do.

    4 for 4 in being wrong. And zim's perfect record is still intact.

    ROTFLOL... of course... you'll claim victory. It's the Leftists Way. Fail miserably and claim victory.
    I claim victory because I won... as is typical when anyone debates you, the individual who posts as the quintessential conservative hack.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #344
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    From the start; Your misguided post in response to my comment about ObamaKare:
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    ...
    Zimmer: http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1062297471

    It is failing as we speak. It's designed to fail.

    He's been acting like a Queen... handing out waivers to the faithful like they're party favors.

    This is Obama's Benghazi to the medical community and nation. Another pure fark up by our Enfant Terrible in de White Ouse and Les Ensemble of Court Jesters in the Ouse and Senate that passed it using tricks.
    You do not seem to understand verb tenses. In the context that I used the term "fail" means past tense. Since Obamacare has not been fully enacted as of yet, this would be the incorrect tense to use.

    Seems like ever since you got to DP, zim, I'm correcting you on how you use words.
    Here is your screw up.

    You tried to put words into my mouth never uttered because you ascribe the OP to me, which wasn't mine.

    I used the word "failing", and "designed to fail" as socialist systems do. Show me one that is a success.

    I offered you a gracious out for ascribing the Poll to me, but in your arrogance you didn't take it. Since then you've tried muddying the waters in an effort to CYA.

    Sorry... You screwed up, and your recovery isn't one. It's a failure. You should have quit when you were ahead... when I graciously offered you an out for your error. But no... you tried to spin it in an attempt to cover your screw up. Bad move.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I tend to not interact with you much upstairs, zim. Your posts tend to be dumb partisan hack comments filled with inaccuracies and fallacies which really don't interest me much. I learned this the first time I interacted with you back in 2008 when you couldn't correctly define the word "socialist".
    You claimed I couldn't define socialism. Wrong. I couldn't define socialism to appease your intellectually bankrupt definition of it.

    You can try to spin your way out of this... but that's all it is... spin.

    Who got their ass kicked... and who is intellectually bankrupt? Like OC... you kicked your very own ass, and your intellectual bankruptcy on the terms Socialist and Socialism... says volumes.
    Last edited by zimmer; 09-12-13 at 06:39 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  5. #345
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Show me one that is a success.
    US Military | U.S. Military Jobs | Careers | Army | Navy

    You claimed I couldn't define socialism
    You still can't.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  6. #346
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    A girl that was dying needed a transplant to live, and requirements had to be lifted so that she was eligible.
    I'd love to see Zimmer's response to this, but I doubt we're going to get anything other than vague comments and insults.

    What is good about the transplant system is that the death panel is out in the open. We can see it and apparently we can actually change it as citizens and voters.

    Compare this to how corporate insurance death panels are run. It is extremely hypocritical for people who are against government death panels to have nary a peep about the back room death panels going on in private insurance that virtually no one knows about until it's too late.

    This suggests to me that the "death panel" crowd either doesn't actually care about death panels and are thus using it purely for political posturing, or they are ignorant about what is happening in private. Neither bode well for honest discussions with them.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  7. #347
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Ahhh. the Twins are in action.

    The VA is a great socialist system? Tell that to the vets. It's known for its problems.

    And you do share the gene. I left quotes earlier in the thread from "Dummies" and "Google". Bone up. You and CC have wasted 5-years.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/19/us...pagewanted=all

    A Pattern of Problems at a Hospital for Veterans
    By JAMES DAO
    Published: March 18, 2013

    WASHINGTON — In an unusually strong letter sent to the White House on Monday, the office that handles complaints from federal whistle-blowers says it has found a pattern of problems at a Department of Veterans Affairs medical center in Jackson, Miss., that raises serious questions about the hospital’s management practices.

    The problems over the last six years include poor sterilization procedures, chronic understaffing of the primary care unit and missed diagnoses by the radiology department...
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  8. #348
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Ahhh. the Twins are in action.

    The VA is a great socialist system? Tell that to the vets. It's known for its problems.
    Did I say the VA or did I say the military?

    For someone who claims I misrepresent everything (but can never prove it) you sure do it a lot yourself.

    FYI, I'm book marking this as evidence that you deliberately misrepresented what I said and you've put words in my mouth I never said. You know, so I can actually prove it when I say it. Rather than just say it and then run away from proving it.

    Notice what I linked. Is that the same link as this one?

    U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

    And you do share the gene. I left quotes earlier in the thread from "Dummies" and "Google". Bone up. You and CC have wasted 5-years.
    You must enjoy getting infractions.

    Try use actual definitions. And definitions that define the word with the word are pointless.

    Point still stands.You still can't define Socialism
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #349
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    A girl that was dying needed a transplant to live, and requirements had to be lifted so that she was eligible.
    I'd love to see Zimmer's response to this, but I doubt we're going to get anything other than vague comments and insults.

    What is good about the transplant system is that the death panel is out in the open. We can see it and apparently we can actually change it as citizens and voters.

    Compare this to how corporate insurance death panels are run. It is extremely hypocritical for people who are against government death panels to have nary a peep about the back room death panels going on in private insurance that virtually no one knows about until it's too late.

    This suggests to me that the "death panel" crowd either doesn't actually care about death panels and are thus using it purely for political posturing, or they are ignorant about what is happening in private. Neither bode well for honest discussions with them.
    You needed a public outcry to get action, and the Secretary herself wasn't going to lift a finger. Obamakare leaves these decisions to The Secretary. There's a quote about it earlier on.

    When the government says "no", you're screwed. In the free market, you've got other options. Just ask the Canadians what their "other options" are.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  10. #350
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Did I say the VA or did I say the military?
    The VA doesn't service military? Veterans are not part of the military family? People entering the military are not promised as part of their service to their country healthcare?

    For someone who claims I misrepresent everything (but can never prove it) you sure do it a lot yourself.
    So... for a successful socialist system, your example is the military? My... what we have to look forward to... ROTFLOL... but hey... we're on our way. Soon we'll be set out for harvest in the potato fields like in the good 'ol USSR.

    FYI, I'm book marking this as evidence that you deliberately misrepresenting what I said and you've put words in my mouth I never said. You know, so I can actually prove it when I say it. Rather than just say it and then run away from proving it.
    ROTFLOL... do you know how many people will laugh their asses off reading that? Coming from you!
    Notice what I linked. Is that the same link as this one?

    U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
    va.gov... and the VA is not known for its stellar performance. It should be. The vets should get the best of the best. But they don't.

    You must enjoy getting infractions.

    Try use actual definitions. And definitions that define the word with the word are pointless.
    Infractions... insmakshuns... hit the report button.
    ROTFLOL... like I said...the intellectually bankrupt don't like the definitions.

    Point still stands.You still can't define Socialism
    Intellectual bankruptcy seems to be one of your strong suits.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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