View Poll Results: Who to Blame for Obamacares' Failures?

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  • They wil blame Republicans, claiming Obamacare was their idea

    57 44.19%
  • They will blame themselves for not pushing single payer

    29 22.48%
  • They will blame providers and insurers for attempting to survive

    60 46.51%
  • IT WAS THAT VILLIAN, GEORGE BUSH!

    63 48.84%
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Thread: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

  1. #21
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    It is clear that Obamacare, in its current form, will fail. The question is how long will it take for America and its government to move to a single payer system in order to save the nation's citizens from Obamacare. When the single payer system is instituted, Obamacare will be seen as the vehicle that got you there by forcing your hand. As such, Obama will be seen as the father of the single payer system.

    There is a lot wrong with both the delivery of health care and its costs in Canada under our universal, single payer healthcare system, including the fact that much of healthcare now requires the individual to pay, but Tommy Douglas, who was instrumental in its inception in the early 1960's, is still deified here as the father of medicare.
    The problem is the single payer that the Democrats want is 'the rich'.
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    It's technically too early to assume such things, but - as mentioned - without major changes to the system, Obamacare will indeed fail without question. Usually the only people who will deny this are the few fringe-left Kool Aiders, such as the ones who voiced in on the front pages. It might help if they actually read into it a little.

    Ignore the simple cost function of Obamacare for a second. It fails alone on that. I am more focused on the supply/demand factor of medical care. The only way this can be countered is for university med programs to essentially blast open the flood gates and allow everyone to go in for medical education who wants to go, instead of being wait-listed in a crowding out method.

    Obama has already slashed the reimbursement rate for Medicare and Medicaid in his presidency, and with the government getting involved with every aspect of health care, who knows? How they will treat doctors financially with regards to money for services that are covered by any type of "insurance" even remotely subsidized by the government will determine exactly how many more physicians will leave the field altogether or find another method to receive fair compensation for their services. This could very well be a death penalty to private practice, specifically gen-prac/fam-prac. I can easily see a scenario where you'll essentially have to go to an already overcrowded, SRO hospital to get a pill for your sniffles.

    However, part of me wishes this to get implanted. Most of the people who voted for Obama because of the illusion of UHC are the ones who will get screwed by it the most. Frankly, I will enjoy sitting back and watching rampant stupidity get punished dearly.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    None of the above.

    Obamacare was designed to fail intentionally. The whole thing was supposed to have an option to allow the government to seize control of healthcare but it got cut out. However, they continued with the rest, knowing it would fail, in order to re-address socialized medicine later with a better chance of getting it through. So, no need to blame anyone when it is working as designed.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Considering that the 2100 page bill was written by insurance companies...and virtually every congressional member openly admitted that they didn't read the content, I don't see any viable way to determine what the outcome will truly be....except for one thing that we can count on. The insurance companies win. Period.

    The Congressional Budget Office is a way more likely source for determining potential outcomes...but the IRS? Now that is mind baffling. Why would the IRS be involved in making ObamaCare assessments. It's not like it doesn't have enough on its plate without jumping into cost/benefit analysis on O.C.

    Insurance companies own a substantial stake in our Congress. Congress won't add insurance companies to the Sherman Anti-trust Act...nor will they create a law that forces competition across state lines. Thus the top 5 major insurance companies maintain a monopoly.

    And just in case somebody doesn't know...Medicare and Medicaid is managed by the same top 5 insurance companies on behalf of the government. Even though the names of the companies listed (if you do a search are listed under, in some cases, subsidiarity names.)

    Look folks...you can buy into the Washington distraction games all you want to. The ongoing fights between the parties keep the American people from focusing on the real issues, which would force Congress to be more accountable...but in the end, those who own Washington don't care what office holder carries which political label...as they all serve the same masters....and the masters damn sure ain't the citizens.

    Everyday the evidence that the Federal Government is totally out of the hands of the American people and yet so many people cling to a mythical political philosophy as those somebody in Washington is faithfully practicing partisan political philosophies...except for one...and that isn't conservatism or liberalism...its known as Powerism.

    Continue to watch the political bouncing ball if you will. Continue to buy into political false prophets. But it will ultimately lead to the end of America as it was intended. We already owe our collective souls to the the company store.

  5. #25
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Considering that the 2100 page bill was written by insurance companies...and virtually every congressional member openly admitted that they didn't read the content, I don't see any viable way to determine what the outcome will truly be....except for one thing that we can count on. The insurance companies win. Period.

    The Congressional Budget Office is a way more likely source for determining potential outcomes...but the IRS? Now that is mind baffling. Why would the IRS be involved in making ObamaCare assessments. It's not like it doesn't have enough on its plate without jumping into cost/benefit analysis on O.C.

    Insurance companies own a substantial stake in our Congress. Congress won't add insurance companies to the Sherman Anti-trust Act...nor will they create a law that forces competition across state lines. Thus the top 5 major insurance companies maintain a monopoly.

    And just in case somebody doesn't know...Medicare and Medicaid is managed by the same top 5 insurance companies on behalf of the government. Even though the names of the companies listed (if you do a search are listed under, in some cases, subsidiarity names.)

    Look folks...you can buy into the Washington distraction games all you want to. The ongoing fights between the parties keep the American people from focusing on the real issues, which would force Congress to be more accountable...but in the end, those who own Washington don't care what office holder carries which political label...as they all serve the same masters....and the masters damn sure ain't the citizens.

    Everyday the evidence that the Federal Government is totally out of the hands of the American people and yet so many people cling to a mythical political philosophy as those somebody in Washington is faithfully practicing partisan political philosophies...except for one...and that isn't conservatism or liberalism...its known as Powerism.

    Continue to watch the political bouncing ball if you will. Continue to buy into political false prophets. But it will ultimately lead to the end of America as it was intended. We already owe our collective souls to the the company store.
    I wouldn't jump the gun on insurance companies yet.
    The law also allowed more businesses to self insure, rather than buy from the insurance business and more are taking advantage of it.
    It allows them to get around some of the legal mandates afford by the PPACA.
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    One of the funniest things is that liberals often bitch about Republicans essentially being for sale by the corporations, but they turn a blinder to what a huge blowjob Obama gave to the insurance lobby over this. Those state health exchanges - do you really think it's going to be a government organization providing that? Nope. Still private coverage. Plus they'll be clustered together by user which is a further attempt to subjugate those on the low end of the spectrum - a real fist job to the slugs. So many people will get the "bronze" package which is essentially comparable to PLPD on your vehicle.

    If a Republican did that, he'd be vilified to a level that makes Bush look like Jesus.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I wouldn't jump the gun on insurance companies yet.
    The law also allowed more businesses to self insure, rather than buy from the insurance business and more are taking advantage of it.
    It allows them to get around some of the legal mandates afford by the PPACA.
    Yeah that's true, but it'll still be costly. Small business health insurance credits will go from 35% to 50% in 2014 when it becomes mandate. I've still talked to a lot of SBOs who say it won't be enough to keep the wolves at bay.

    Having said that, it'll still put a lot of people out of work.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    It is clear that Obamacare, in its current form, will fail. The question is how long will it take for America and its government to move to a single payer system in order to save the nation's citizens from Obama-care. When the single payer system is instituted, Obamacare will be seen as the vehicle that got you there by forcing your hand. As such, Obama will be seen as the father of the single payer system.

    There is a lot wrong with both the delivery of health care and its costs in Canada under our universal, single payer healthcare system, including the fact that much of healthcare now requires the individual to pay, but Tommy Douglas, who was instrumental in its inception in the early 1960's, is still deified here as the father of medicare.
    So what, under these green heavens , can possibly be wrong with requiring patients to pay a reasonable fee for their health costs ??
    The idea behind all of this legislation is to have AFFORDABLE health care.
    Germany has been working on their system for a century plus....Canada should do the same...and we are nearly a half century behind the Canadians......

  9. #29
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I wouldn't jump the gun on insurance companies yet.
    The law also allowed more businesses to self insure, rather than buy from the insurance business and more are taking advantage of it.
    It allows them to get around some of the legal mandates afford by the PPACA.
    We'll see said the blind man. Some states won't allow for Exchanges to be created. The current laws that allow Insurance companies to maintain a very tight grip on the American people MUST CHANGE to expand competition.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    We'll see said the blind man. Some states won't allow for Exchanges to be created. The current laws that allow Insurance companies to maintain a very tight grip on the American people MUST CHANGE to expand competition.
    I'm not sure that states will win that fight because of some morphism of the FF&C clause. Instead, what they'll do is create their exchanges with coverage that is so bad that it's essentially a dead dog.

    BCBS has been doing something like this for a while on their own.

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