View Poll Results: Who to Blame for Obamacares' Failures?

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  • They wil blame Republicans, claiming Obamacare was their idea

    57 44.19%
  • They will blame themselves for not pushing single payer

    29 22.48%
  • They will blame providers and insurers for attempting to survive

    60 46.51%
  • IT WAS THAT VILLIAN, GEORGE BUSH!

    63 48.84%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

  1. #11
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Close, prefaced upon how people who say what you want to hear are telling you it is failing, by giving you inaccurate and incomplete pictures, and you buying into those lies. For example you mentions millions losing insurance, but fail to note that those people will still have access to insurance, and the number of insured will go up. it's deceptive practices like that which are the norm for your sources.
    .... the CBO is deceptive because they don't tell you what you want to hear. Classic ad sourcinem by Redress.

    Here's a deception for you: "If you like your insurance, you can keep it." That was deceptive as the man knew that it was crap when he said it. I would believe he has been honestly surprised by the fact that he's bent the cost-curve up, though. Give the man honest credit for his beliefs.

    I am not a fan of Obamacare/ACA or whatever it is being called by whatever group, but I will actually let it happen before declaring it failed. That would actually be, you know, honest. Building straw men to try and score political points just makes this whole thread painfully silly, not that it has ever slowed you down as this thread shows.
    Gonna be fun watching ya'll deal with this slow self-dismemberment. Little bit of schadenfreude in all of us.

  2. #12
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Close, prefaced upon how people who say what you want to hear are telling you it is failing, by giving you inaccurate and incomplete pictures, and you buying into those lies. For example you mentions millions losing insurance, but fail to note that those people will still have access to insurance, and the number of insured will go up. it's deceptive practices like that which are the norm for your sources. Reminds me of when you where portraying Ryan's economic plan as from Simpson Bowles, without mentioning that all of the balancing items from Simpson Bowles got omitted, kinda like a kid who decides to eat only their desert but claims he ate what we given to him. The fact you are using editorial sources even in this OP is a sign of how desperate you are to try and make a case that isn't made.

    I am not a fan of Obamacare/ACA or whatever it is being called by whatever group, but I will actually let it happen before declaring it failed. That would actually be, you know, honest. Building straw men to try and score political points just makes this whole thread painfully silly, not that it has ever slowed you down as this thread shows.
    It will fail because there aren't enough doctors to handle millions of new patients. The only thing it will be successful at is providing less healthcare.
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
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  3. #13
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    Re: A Sucker Born Every Minute…

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Quod erat demonstrandum.

    I think most Americans understood from the beginning that there was no way that this massive scam could possibly succeed at achieving any of what it was claimed to be intended to achieve. As the inevitability of failure becomes increasingly obvious, there are still quite a few suckers who deny the obvious, and I think that this will remain true, no matter how massive and how obvious this failure becomes.

    The famous statement popularly, but incorrectly attributed to P. T. Barnum is, in fact, a massive understatement.
    Conservatives can never explain why the modern/advanced Asian and Euro nations have national, affordable , socialized,health care, yet we do not !
    Have I forgotten Canada , again ?
    Very conservatives cannot explain anything..
    And, no vote again, of course....., with major revisions (copying the German plan from the Bismark era), NHC will suceed.
    Last edited by earthworm; 02-18-13 at 09:34 AM.

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    The OP neglected to mention:

    Sebelius On The CLASS Act: 'I Do Not See A Viable Path Forward'
    “We have not identified a way to make Class work at this time,” Ms. Sebelius said. She said the program, which had been championed by Senator Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, was financially unsustainable.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/15/he...alth.html?_r=0

    The CLASS act being part of PPACA and was repealed in the last 'fiscal cliff deal'...one has to wonder how much has to/will be repealed before it is deemed 'failure'.
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    It will fail because there aren't enough doctors to handle millions of new patients. The only thing it will be successful at is providing less healthcare.
    A "like", even if I disagree.....possibily valid points...
    Hopefully, the Obama-care is patterned after VA care, which is, I believe, subsidized by our government.
    The VA care is good and affordable, IMO.
    Only a fool or a hypochrondiac would abuse it...I imagine that this does happen on occasion, , but each medical visit costs and takes valuable time..
    As to running out of doctors.....this is dubious at best....but I have not seen a "doctor " in years..The "nurse practitioners" have taken over..

    What I wonder about is this - why must conservatives be so negative about things ??

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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    A "like", even if I disagree.....possibily valid points...
    Hopefully, the Obama-care is patterned after VA care, which is, I believe, subsidized by our government.
    The VA care is good and affordable, IMO.
    Only a fool or a hypochrondiac would abuse it...I imagine that this does happen on occasion, , but each medical visit costs and takes valuable time..
    As to running out of doctors.....this is dubious at best....but I have not seen a "doctor " in years..The "nurse practitioners" have taken over..

    What I wonder about is this - why must conservatives be so negative about things ??
    What is negative about poionting out a fact?

    "Once a problem limited to rural areas, the doctor shortage is now hitting large population centers such as Las Vegas and Detroit where people are forced to wait weeks or months or travel hundreds of miles for care. Nationwide, there is a shortage of more than 13,000 doctors, according to the Association of American Medical Colleges, a Washington-based nonprofit that represents medical schools.

    That shortfall is expected to grow 10-fold to 130,000 doctors within 12 years as the U.S. population ages and 30 million more people are added to insurance rolls under the 2010 health-care law, the medical college association said."

    Doctor Shortage Spreading in U.S. Presaged in Las Vegas - Bloomberg
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
    P. J. O'Rourke

  7. #17
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Right, so. Obamacare is now bending the cost-curve up, millions are going to lose their health insurance, the IRS is saying that the cheapest plan under Obamacares' exchanges will cost $20,000 for a family of five by 2016 and increase out of pocket costs even AFTER the subsidies, the hundreds of billions in cuts to Medicare to fund the program will cause many doctors to stop taking Medicare patients, and if we don't make those cuts to providers, then the costs of Obamacare, which are already rising, to explode. 26 States are refusing to work with HHS, and Obamacare's implementation, already well behind track threatens to fall further and further behind even as it is announced that they will not, actually, technically, so-to-speak, be able to help the people the bill was purported to aid.


    So. As this disaster of a behemoth of a bill continues to flail and fail, who are the Democrats going to blame? How far down the rabbit hole are they willing to go, ears plugged, eyes closed?
    They will not acknowledge failure. They'll blame it on those nasty rich bastards that own companies. They'll blame it on Republicans if they don't vote for the tweaks they knew it would need when it was originally enacted. They'll claim they waited to implement it for several years knowing that changes would have to be made as it became clear how the legislation effected everyone. They'll claim unintended consequences are part-and-parcel of such sweeping reform.

    What I'd like to know, however, is how this legislation is failing. Now. Because it's going to cost employers more and cost employees more should be a surprise to no one.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  8. #18
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    It is clear that Obamacare, in its current form, will fail. The question is how long will it take for America and its government to move to a single payer system in order to save the nation's citizens from Obamacare. When the single payer system is instituted, Obamacare will be seen as the vehicle that got you there by forcing your hand. As such, Obama will be seen as the father of the single payer system.

    There is a lot wrong with both the delivery of health care and its costs in Canada under our universal, single payer healthcare system, including the fact that much of healthcare now requires the individual to pay, but Tommy Douglas, who was instrumental in its inception in the early 1960's, is still deified here as the father of medicare.

  9. #19
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    A "like", even if I disagree.....possibily valid points...
    Hopefully, the Obama-care is patterned after VA care, which is, I believe, subsidized by our government.
    The VA care is good and affordable, IMO.
    Only a fool or a hypochrondiac would abuse it...I imagine that this does happen on occasion, , but each medical visit costs and takes valuable time..
    As to running out of doctors.....this is dubious at best....but I have not seen a "doctor " in years..The "nurse practitioners" have taken over..

    What I wonder about is this - why must conservatives be so negative about things ??

    The VA...where they had the unsanitized colonoscopy scopes that led to an AIDs scare a few years ago, and the double-dip insulin pens that led to a blood-born pathogens scare this year? THAT VA?

    Regardless, for several years now we've (Medicaid/Medicare/SCHIP) been either cutting or suspending payouts to doctors while the costs of providing care have risen. Why would ANY system that maintains that pattern lead to an abundance of available medical care?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  10. #20
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    Re: Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    The VA...where they had the unsanitized colonoscopy scopes that led to an AIDs scare a few years ago, and the double-dip insulin pens that led to a blood-born pathogens scare this year? THAT VA?

    Regardless, for several years now we've (Medicaid/Medicare/SCHIP) been either cutting or suspending payouts to doctors while the costs of providing care have risen. Why would ANY system that maintains that pattern lead to an abundance of available medical care?
    It wouldn't, tess. And why some people don't seem to see what is right before their face, boggles my mind.

    Hell, the entire Medicaid turned KanCare (here in Kansas) is just the tip of the nightmarish iceberg. I work with a disabled population whose benefits have been cut to the point where they will be DENIED medical care because of some of the changes that have been made.

    Local holes exist in KanCare networks | CJOnline.com

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