View Poll Results: Should lying Mass Media be punished?

Voters
12. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, but for a lack of professional journalism.

    1 8.33%
  • No, they told the truth.

    3 25.00%
  • Yes, for collusion to promote a false agenda.

    5 41.67%
  • No, they were just doing a favor to get inside access.

    0 0%
  • If they lied before, they are lying now?

    1 8.33%
  • This just represents Mass Media manipulation and is normal.

    6 50.00%
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Thread: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

  1. #51
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    This was the second Iraq war. The first Iraq war achieved an objective and left. The second Iraq war was an explosion of profits. If Saddam was so bad why didn't we take him down and depart? Why are we financing them to this very day? Why have we eroded our honor and hurt so many of us for so little reward?

    Vietnam was equally pointless but differently motivated. Maybe we'll figure it out during this century.
    I'm not sure I follow part of your argument. We did take down Saddam, and we aren't financing him or the Baath Party establishment. Part of the practical criticism of the war in fact was that we were to aggressive in removing vestiges of the regime and thus destabilized Iraqi society.

  2. #52
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    We whipped Saddam's butt, and he continued to stick his thumb in our eye.

    Trying to kill YOUR NEIGHBORS by firing on our jets, in the words of that JOINT RESOLUTION you Democrats signed "thousands of times...."

    After 9/11, we stuck ours in his.......

    I guess you miss the idea of his gassing women and children in their homes, huh?

    And lest you forget DEMOCRATS were cheer-leading us into that war HARDER than Republicans were, until they found that turning their backs on our soldiers was worth more politically than supporting them.....

    The Who Said It Game - Iraq Style

  3. #53
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    I'm trying to say that it was not our responsibility to do anything but dispose of Saddam, determine those elusive WMDs did not exist and exit stage left. Instead we remained for 10 years and are just now winding down reconstruction aid. So, trillions just to make a point? I think if you follow the money, especially in the first years of the "war", you'll see that we fought for profits, not for necessity.

    Obviously, it's just my opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I'm not sure I follow part of your argument. We did take down Saddam, and we aren't financing him or the Baath Party establishment. Part of the practical criticism of the war in fact was that we were to aggressive in removing vestiges of the regime and thus destabilized Iraqi society.

  4. #54
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    The Bush Administration used weapons grade propaganda on the citizens of the US to manipulate the nation to support the invasion of Iraq. Never before had the media been used in such a manner on the American public. It was nothing short of masterful. In and of itself, it was a grand success. In fact, for those who care to read about such things, the process is well documented. There are/have been university classes dedicated to the subject. The grand secret? Most people, most Americans don't care to read about such things! How much more perfect can propaganda campaign have been?

    The beauty of it all is that it was and is hidden in plan sight. Unfortunately, the genie will never go back in the bottle. Every administration will take what was learned from the Bush Administration and improve upon it.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  5. #55
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    No WMDs.
    Just as a note, I wish people would start saying "No Nukes" or "Not the amount/severity of WMDs that were implied". But then again, that would require people actually being knowledgable of what constitutes a WMD cand actually looking at sources other than truthout.net.

    We actually DID find WMDs. That's not a statement against or for the war, or hte justifications, but it's correcting a factual innaccuracy.

  6. #56
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Just as a note, I wish people would start saying "No Nukes" or "Not the amount/severity of WMDs that were implied". But then again, that would require people actually being knowledgable of what constitutes a WMD cand actually looking at sources other than truthout.net.

    We actually DID find WMDs. That's not a statement against or for the war, or hte justifications, but it's correcting a factual innaccuracy.
    That statement is technically accurate. I remember them finding some obsolete mustard gas stuff. Abandoned or trashed weapons. No nukes, no mobile labs, no nerve gas, no evidence of yellowcake from Niger, no evidence of anything mentioned by Powell in his UN speech with Tenet sitting directly behind him. Misinformation, misspoke, inaccurate, faulty, etc. as descriptors doesn't work for me. Lies are lies and no political distortion can alter that. History can be re-written by the victors, but it is fiction at that point. I'm a realist.

  7. #57
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    We shouldn't have had to go into Iraq, if the UN was actually effective and did their job...15 years of ignoring sanctions of knowing that Saddam was murdering groups of innocent people was 15 years too many.

    There was a whole list of reasons cited for why we went into Iraq, possible WMD's was just one of the many reasons.


    The resolution cited many factors to justify the use of military force against Iraq:[2][3]
    Iraq's noncompliance with the conditions of the 1991 ceasefire agreement, including interference with U.N. weapons inspectors.
    Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction, and programs to develop such weapons, posed a "threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region."
    Iraq's "brutal repression of its civilian population."
    Iraq's "capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people".
    Iraq's hostility towards the United States as demonstrated by the 1993 assassination attempt on former President George H. W. Bush and firing on coalition aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones following the 1991 Gulf War.
    Members of al-Qaeda, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq.
    Iraq's "continu[ing] to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations," including anti-United States terrorist organizations.
    Iraq paid bounty to families of suicide bombers.
    The efforts by the Congress and the President to fight terrorists, and those who aided or harbored them.
    The authorization by the Constitution and the Congress for the President to fight anti-United States terrorism.
    The governments in Turkey, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia feared Saddam and wanted him removed from power.
    Citing the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, the resolution reiterated that it should be the policy of the United States to remove the Saddam Hussein regime and promote a democratic replacement.

    Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Longer version here:
    Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

  8. #58
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    The Bush Administration used weapons grade propaganda on the citizens of the US to manipulate the nation to support the invasion of Iraq. Never before had the media been used in such a manner on the American public. It was nothing short of masterful. In and of itself, it was a grand success. In fact, for those who care to read about such things, the process is well documented. There are/have been university classes dedicated to the subject. The grand secret? Most people, most Americans don't care to read about such things! How much more perfect can propaganda campaign have been?

    The beauty of it all is that it was and is hidden in plan sight. Unfortunately, the genie will never go back in the bottle. Every administration will take what was learned from the Bush Administration and improve upon it.
    Excelent post. Let me comment on one thing from my POV. Recalling how things were done, especially by Dick Cheney, I don't think all administrations are the same. Please recall how the Dick went after people that were speaking thuthfully.

  9. #59
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Excelent post. Let me comment on one thing from my POV. Recalling how things were done, especially by Dick Cheney, I don't think all administrations are the same. Please recall how the Dick went after people that were speaking thuthfully.
    Thank you for the kind words.

    Dick Cheney was one for the record books. I agree with you. I suspect that Cheney may have been more directly involved in the overall propaganda campaign than Bush. The entire effort required orchestration and buy-in at the highest levels. Cheney, in my humble opinion, was the one in the Bush Administration who got it. He understood how powerful weapons grade propaganda could be. Was he more adept at mass manipulation than Joseph Goebbels? He was certainly no less so. Perhaps it was Cheney and Rove working in concert.

    As a side note, is illegal to for the US Government to use propaganda on the citizens of the United States. Or at least it was. It was the 4th quarter of 2012, if I recall, that there was wording in the defense bill that would strike that law and make it legal to for the US Government to purposely deceive the citizens of the United States through the use of propaganda. I don't know that the attempt to change the law was successful.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  10. #60
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    We shouldn't have had to go into Iraq, if the UN was actually effective and did their job...15 years of ignoring sanctions of knowing that Saddam was murdering groups of innocent people was 15 years too many.

    There was a whole list of reasons cited for why we went into Iraq, possible WMD's was just one of the many reasons.




    Longer version here:
    Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq
    The US had no legal authority to invade Iraq
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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