View Poll Results: Should lying Mass Media be punished?

Voters
12. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, but for a lack of professional journalism.

    1 8.33%
  • No, they told the truth.

    3 25.00%
  • Yes, for collusion to promote a false agenda.

    5 41.67%
  • No, they were just doing a favor to get inside access.

    0 0%
  • If they lied before, they are lying now?

    1 8.33%
  • This just represents Mass Media manipulation and is normal.

    6 50.00%
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Thread: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

  1. #31
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Media is protected from "punishment" and you are subsidizing them if you have cable/satellite whether you watch them or not.

  2. #32
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    No mobile weapons labs.
    No WMDs.
    No yellowcake from Niger.
    No missile tubes.
    Since none of these were true, then they are by definition "lies."
    Your investigative reporters are supposed to catch and reveal lies. In this case, like Judith Miller, they were part of the deception.

    Again, if it's not true, it is a lie. Not complicated. When a politician's lips move, is he lying? That is innate wisdom of the proletariot.

    It's the tenth anniversary of Iraq and if we were decieved, how do we react and make appropriate change? Is it ongoing? What do you think, or perhaps you don't?

    Hard to type, fingers are still frozen.
    That is factually and logically untrue. "I believe based on these measurements that Jupiter's orbit will follow X pattern" Oh but that wasn't true. So I must have lied about it. There is a world of difference between something being proven wrong, and it being a lie. Only a fanatic could fail to comprehend this distinction.

  3. #33
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Moreover for all the war profiteering American companies really missed the boat on the Iraqi oil industry, and didn't exactly corner the market on reconstruction contracts. They could apparently launch a war, but couldn't secure their expected gains.

  4. #34
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Moreover for all the war profiteering American companies really missed the boat on the Iraqi oil industry, and didn't exactly corner the market on reconstruction contracts. They could apparently launch a war, but couldn't secure their expected gains.

    Please post your links proving posts 32 and 33.
    Show me a photo of a Iraqi Mobile Weapons Lab
    Show me a photo of captured WMD
    Show me a photo of yellowcake from Niger
    Show me a Centifuge tube from Iraq (not a missile tube)
    Show ExxonMobil, BP, Total, Chevron profits before and after the invasion of Iraq resulting from Iraqi OIL in their distribution network

    THANK YOU!

  5. #35
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Please post your links proving posts 32 and 33.
    Show me a photo of a Iraqi Mobile Weapons Lab
    Show me a photo of captured WMD
    Show me a photo of yellowcake from Niger
    Show me a Centifuge tube from Iraq (not a missile tube)
    Show ExxonMobil, BP, Total, Chevron profits before and after the invasion of Iraq resulting from Iraqi OIL in their distribution network

    THANK YOU!
    US oil companies won very very very few field development contracts. U.S. Companies Shut Out as Iraq Auctions Its Oil Fields - TIME While reconstruction contracts went pretty much all over the place, US companies had a logical major presence but it wasnt (and today isn't) overwhelming. Moreover oil in a 'distribution network' is a stupid metric to use. We have a global energy market, even Iranian oil factors into supply and profit margins for American energy companies and before the worst of the sanctions hit, and maybe even still today, it is extremely likely that Iranian oil ended up filtering into Western companies distribution either from spot market purchases or through other factors. The same is true for Iraqi oil. If your claim is that greedy oil cabal executives somehow predicted the global price surge and planned the Iraq War around permanently jacking up the price of crude I have nothing to say because that is both conspiratorial and untestable, but also dumb.

  6. #36
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    How the Iraq War Was Sold

    "The Washington Post continues to allow former members of the Bush administration, including President George W. Bush, to distort the case for going to war against Iraq in 2003 and to blame the intelligence from the Central Intelligence Agency for the decision to use force.In the “Outlook” section on Feb. 3 (“Still Fighting over a flawed case for war”), the Post cites memoirs from six key decision-makers, who are unwilling to acknowledge that the Iraq War was a deadly undertaking paved by lies and deceit.
    It was never a case of whether the White House distorted the intelligence it received on Iraq or whether the Central Intelligence Agency provided bad intelligence to the White House. In fact, both the White House and the CIA had a hand in the distortion of intelligence and both contributed to making the phony case for war to the Congress and the American people."

    Where Are They Now? The Reporters Who Got Iraq So Wrong

    "Ten years ago today, Colin Powell made the Bush administration's case for going to war against Iraq. Much of what he said about Iraq's threats to the United States was false. But the media coverage gave the opposite impression, and most of the pundits and journalists who promoted the justifications for the war paid no price for their failures."

    Is the Patriot Act necessary or an over-reaction to these lies?
    Is Homeland Security necessary?
    Is the TSA necessary?
    Did the war waste a Trillion dollars of public money?
    Does the public at large really care or want to know?
    Why do we allow the perpetuation of these myths?
    Did any particular group profit handsomely from this war?
    What were the real reasons for the war?
    As Citizens, "Do we not want to believe we've been bamboozled?"
    Watch this video. I think Christopher Hitchens sums it up quite well here. You can't argue with his reasoning, and I would not dare be on the other side of the debate if he is the one you are debating!

    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  7. #37
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Watch this video. I think Christopher Hitchens sums it up quite well here. You can't argue with his reasoning, and I would not dare be on the other side of the debate if he is the one you are debating!

    I like Hitchens, but its really the lowest of form to post an almost 2 hour youtube video and say "Cant argue with this!" It's the kind of thing usually reserved for fanatics and conspiracy trolls, and I'm guess you aren't either of those.

  8. #38
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I like Hitchens, but its really the lowest of form to post an almost 2 hour youtube video and say "Cant argue with this!" It's the kind of thing usually reserved for fanatics and conspiracy trolls, and I'm guess you aren't either of those.
    If I were posting in a conspiracy thread, and trying to support such a conspiracy by posting videos and links to known conspirist garbage web sites, I would agree. However, I think Hitchens is well known not to be either of those things. He is a literary genius and a witty debater. I refer to him simply because I can't say it any better than he does.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  9. #39
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    US oil companies won very very very few field development contracts. U.S. Companies Shut Out as Iraq Auctions Its Oil Fields - TIME While reconstruction contracts went pretty much all over the place, US companies had a logical major presence but it wasnt (and today isn't) overwhelming. Moreover oil in a 'distribution network' is a stupid metric to use. We have a global energy market, even Iranian oil factors into supply and profit margins for American energy companies and before the worst of the sanctions hit, and maybe even still today, it is extremely likely that Iranian oil ended up filtering into Western companies distribution either from spot market purchases or through other factors. The same is true for Iraqi oil. If your claim is that greedy oil cabal executives somehow predicted the global price surge and planned the Iraq War around permanently jacking up the price of crude I have nothing to say because that is both conspiratorial and untestable, but also dumb.
    I certainly didn't say anything your poor strawman suggests. But! Big BUT! Saddam sold OIL for Euros and was embargoed by UN Nations. That OIL of Saddam's didn't go into pipelines and tankers owned by the Big Oil Western corporations and move around at a $.05/gallon profit. Now, getting that oil into the distribution network owned by these big corporations brings that $.05/gallon profit back into the picture, even if you do not own one iota of the production. Probably the OIL corporations big businessmen who profit from knowing their systems realized that if Saddam's OIL came into the system, they would profit handsomely. Ergo, try to get someone to get it into the system. It is in the system now, and they own some production also. Keerist, we're only talking about trillions of gallons here. Chump change, eh?

  10. #40
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    Re: Iraq War lies, past and present, and punishments?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I certainly didn't say anything your poor strawman suggests. But! Big BUT! Saddam sold OIL for Euros and was embargoed by UN Nations. That OIL of Saddam's didn't go into pipelines and tankers owned by the Big Oil Western corporations and move around at a $.05/gallon profit. Now, getting that oil into the distribution network owned by these big corporations brings that $.05/gallon profit back into the picture, even if you do not own one iota of the production. Probably the OIL corporations big businessmen who profit from knowing their systems realized that if Saddam's OIL came into the system, they would profit handsomely. Ergo, try to get someone to get it into the system. It is in the system now, and they own some production also. Keerist, we're only talking about trillions of gallons here. Chump change, eh?
    What are you talking about? I have no idea where you are arbitrarily pulling out $.05 or what its purpose is but its irrelevant. Your contention has been that American oil companies assisted in instigating the Iraq War in order to gain access to Iraqi oil fields. It is a statement of fact that the majority of Iraqi field services and extraction contracts have not gone to American companies. Moreover if your contention is that oil is now flowing into the international market (which would assist in bringing price stability not increasing them) that was true when the INOC and the Oil Ministry were distributing crude in the Oil for Food Program. I also have no idea what you are talking about when you say "Their systems" what exactly does that mean? Their pipelines? Their tankers? Their refineries? I feel as though you vastly underestimate the complexity of energy markets let alone the crude industry, and much of what you think stems from an acute lack of understanding.

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