Seriously consider before voting

[Turin]

Should churches be required to honor our constitution and follow the same laws for non exempt tax status as any other organization?

http://taxthechurches.org

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Because religious organizations are not accountable to the citizens who subsidize them. ​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If churches engage in charitable work that benefits the community, do all citizens have an interest in supporting such endeavors with, say, various tax exemptions? Of course. This is the sound basis for tax exemptions for non-profit organizations, whose activities and finances are subject to IRS audit and public scrutiny. In the case of religious organizations, however, the books are closed.[/FONT][/FONT]​

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Non-church groups receiving tax exemptions must annually file a detailed 990 statement itemizing where the money has gone. The IRS automatically waives the 990 requirement for churches.​

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[Goshin]

A tax exemption is not a subsidy.



The reason churches are usually tax-exempt is because they often engage in charitable aid, and are a protected institution, as in "the power to tax is the power to destroy".

 

[Turin]

A tax exemption is not a subsidy.



The reason churches are usually tax-exempt is because they often engage in charitable aid, and are a protected institution, as in "the power to tax is the power to destroy".

Lots of churches in my state have mega buildings like country clubs and pastors earning 6 figures and the charitable work is limited ...others are charitable and reasonable. Why not have each file a return and be accountable like any not for profit ...?

This is not to suggest that you abandon your church or your faith. For one thing, any religious organization that lives up to its commitments to its congregation and community would have nothing to fear from filing a tax return, just like every other non-profit. For another, when these institutions pay taxes like every other non-profit, each citizen's tax burden is significantly lessened and consequently he or she maybetter endow a worthy institution with individual support.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Should churches be required to honor our constitution and follow the same laws for non exempt tax status as any other organization?

home

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Because religious organizations are not accountable to the citizens who subsidize them. ​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If churches engage in charitable work that benefits the community, do all citizens have an interest in supporting such endeavors with, say, various tax exemptions? Of course. This is the sound basis for tax exemptions for non-profit organizations, whose activities and finances are subject to IRS audit and public scrutiny. In the case of religious organizations, however, the books are closed.[/FONT][/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Non-church groups receiving tax exemptions must annually file a detailed 990 statement itemizing where the money has gone. The IRS automatically waives the 990 requirement for churches.​

[/FONT]​

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Not taxing churches, is not a subsidy.

By that logic, the church my wife attends, subsidizes the federal and state governments by providing care, food, clothing, transportation, etc, to a great many of the poor people in the surrounding community.

 

[Turin]

A tax exemption is not a subsidy.



The reason churches are usually tax-exempt is because they often engage in charitable aid, and are a protected institution, as in "the power to tax is the power to destroy".

Why should the not for profit that does far greater works have to account yet any "religion" or "cult" can gain gain tax exempt status ...

 

[Turin]

Not taxing churches, is not a subsidy.

By that logic, the church my wife attends, subsidizes the federal and state governments by providing care, food, clothing, transportation, etc, to a great many of the poor people in the surrounding community.

That is that church ... think more broadly should any church have tax exempt status? Your wife's church if filing and truly being charitable would likely be tax exempt. Think broadly and analytically ... not your one anecdotal ....

 

[Turin]

Religious organizations are not accountable to the citizens who subsidize them. If churches engage in charitable work that benefits the community, do all citizens have an interest in supporting such endeavors with, say, various tax exemptions? Of course. This is the sound basis for tax exemptions for non-profit organizations, whose activities and finances are subject to IRS audit and public scrutiny. In the case of religious organizations, however, the books are closed

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

That is that church ... think more broadly should any church have tax exempt status? Your wife's church if filing and truly being charitable would likely be tax exempt. Think broadly and analytically ... not your one anecdotal ....

While I get what you mean, I don't believe most churches follow the mega church model.
Those that unjustly enrich themselves, usually get caught, some way or another.

 

[Goshin]

Lots of churches in my state have mega buildings like country clubs and pastors earning 6 figures and the charitable work is limited ...others are charitable and reasonable. Why not have each file a return and be accountable like any not for profit ...?

Really? Odd. In my entire county, I can only think of one actual "mega-church"... but there are hundreds of small churches that get by on a shoestring budget and would probably go under if they had to pay corporate tax rates.

As for charity, every single soup kitchen and homeless shelter I've ever seen in my area is funded and run by a local church.

 

[Turin]

While I get what you mean, I don't believe most churches follow the mega church model.
Those that unjustly enrich themselves, usually get caught, some way or another.

No there is nothing to catch ...as the books are closed. Why not file as a non profit ... you are quite naive if you think the closed books is constitutional.

 

[Turin]

Really? Odd. In my entire county, I can only think of one actual "mega-church"... but there are hundreds of small churches that get by on a shoestring budget and would probably go under if they had to pay corporate tax rates.

As for charity, every single soup kitchen and homeless shelter I've ever seen in my area is funded and run by a local church.

I moved from a small city ...there were 4 mega churches that were like country clubs and use money for cruises and country club settings yet they do some charitable work as well ...

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

No there is nothing to catch ...as the books are closed. Why not file as a non profit ... you are quite naive if you think the closed books is constitutional.

I just don't care all that much, because it's not a huge problem.
To me, it seems like mountains out of mole hills.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

I moved from a small city ...there were 4 mega churches that were like country clubs and use money for cruises and country club settings yet they do some charitable work as well ...

Even open book charities can spend 99% of the donations, on non charitable things.
There is no legal requirement to spend X% on charitable causes.

If they were intent on living it up on donations, you obviously saw it.
Don't give them money.

 

[Turin]

Really? Odd. In my entire county, I can only think of one actual "mega-church"... but there are hundreds of small churches that get by on a shoestring budget and would probably go under if they had to pay corporate tax rates.

As for charity, every single soup kitchen and homeless shelter I've ever seen in my area is funded and run by a local church.

Clearly you did not read the link ... no one said corporate tax rates and those performing like a not for profit would have tax exempt. this is about holding accountability and not blind faith with closed books.

Non-church groups receiving tax exemptions must annually file a detailed 990 statement itemizing where the money has gone. The IRS automatically waives the 990 requirement for churches.

 

[Turin]

Tax exemptions for churches violate the separation of church and state required by the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the US Constitution. By providing a financial benefit to religious institutions, government is supporting religion. Associate Justice of the US Supreme court, William O. Douglas, in his dissenting opinion in Walz v. Tax Commission of the City of New York, decided May 4, 1970, stated: "If believers are entitled to public financial support, so are nonbelievers. A believer and nonbeliever under the present law are treated differently because of the articles of their faith… I conclude that this tax exemption is unconstitutional."

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Tax exemptions for churches violate the separation of church and state required by the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the US Constitution. By providing a financial benefit to religious institutions, government is supporting religion. Associate Justice of the US Supreme court, William O. Douglas, in his dissenting opinion in Walz v. Tax Commission of the City of New York, decided May 4, 1970, stated: "If believers are entitled to public financial support, so are nonbelievers. A believer and nonbeliever under the present law are treated differently because of the articles of their faith… I conclude that this tax exemption is unconstitutional."

Tax exemption is not a violation of church and state.
Any charitable origination, religious or otherwise, can get a tax exemption

 

[Turin]

Tax exemption is not a violation of church and state.
Any charitable origination, religious or otherwise, can get a tax exemption

Yes by opening their book ...except for churches ...it is AUTOMATIC with closed books. You just made my very point! Not all churches are charitable or just minimally so ...

 

[Turin]

Non profits that are charitable open their books and justify their tax exempt status ... why are churches treated differently. That violates the Constitution.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Yes by opening their book ...except for churches ...it is AUTOMATIC with closed books. You just made my very point! Not all churches are charitable or just minimally so ...

Not all charities with open books are charitable.
Nor has opening the books changed all that much.

 

[Turin]

Do you think churches should be automaticaaly exempt from opening their books to demonstrate not for profit?

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Should churches be required to honor our constitution and follow the same laws for non exempt tax status as any other organization?

home

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Because religious organizations are not accountable to the citizens who subsidize them. ​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If churches engage in charitable work that benefits the community, do all citizens have an interest in supporting such endeavors with, say, various tax exemptions? Of course. This is the sound basis for tax exemptions for non-profit organizations, whose activities and finances are subject to IRS audit and public scrutiny. In the case of religious organizations, however, the books are closed.[/FONT][/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Non-church groups receiving tax exemptions must annually file a detailed 990 statement itemizing where the money has gone. The IRS automatically waives the 990 requirement for churches.​

[/FONT]​

​

I didn't read the entire thing because argument #1 is in direct contradiction with the definitive ruling of the Supreme Court (I can't remember hte case name - it originated several decades ago in Florida . . . I think it had to do with the slaughter of pigs or something? Vague memory here - so sorry. But I remember the final ruling from law class)

Congress can pass certain types of regulation (like on taxation - because taxation is a government concern) . . . as long as it's applied FAIRLY to every form of religious 'entity' (church - etc).

It cannot affect one type of faith (like Jewish) and not another (Catholic or Buddhist) by it's inherent nature - direct or indirect. (the case I vaguely remember was very indirect - having nothing to do with religion at all but did impact how a particular religion conducted itself).

I'll look around and see if I can find it. . . it really clarifies how the first is applied an considered in the eyes of the law.

 

[digsbe]

Freedom of worship and religion is a Constitutional right. We honor the constitution by not taxing churches and other places of worship like mosques and synagogues. The church doesn't run the state and the state doesn't run or infringe upon the church. Giving the government power to tax churches is infringing upon a right to worship since churches and places of worship would have to pay taxes to provide a place for people to do so. The government could indirectly outlaw churches and public worship by taxing them to an unbearable level. Most churches have very very tight budgets and they are accountable to the congregants who typically have the ability to vote on financial issues or appoint deacons/elders to vote on them. It's an internal accountability, not an accountability to the government.

Now, if the "church" was actually a for profit business operating under the guise of a church to avoid taxation that is one thing.

 

[X Factor]

The wording of the poll is horrible, suggesting that a no vote mean you're anti-Constitution. If only one type church was made tax exempt, that would violate the Establishment Clause. If all churches are treated the same, there is no constitutional violation.

 

[Goshin]

The wording of the poll is horrible, suggesting that a no vote mean you're anti-Constitution. If only one type church was made tax exempt, that would violate the Establishment Clause. If all churches are treated the same, there is no constitutional violation.

The OP does not appear to be much interested in dissenting opinions, other than shouting them down.

 

[X Factor]

The OP does not appear to be much interested in dissenting opinions, other than shouting them down.

Well I don't think the real issue for the OP is concern over the Constitution, but more she seems to have an ax to grind with religion. Just my opinion.