View Poll Results: Should churches be required to honor our constitution and follow the same laws for no

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  • yes

    11 57.89%
  • no

    8 42.11%
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Thread: Seriously consider before voting

  1. #21
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    Re: Seriously consider before voting

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Should churches be required to honor our constitution and follow the same laws for non exempt tax status as any other organization?

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    Because religious organizations are not accountable to the citizens who subsidize them. If churches engage in charitable work that benefits the community, do all citizens have an interest in supporting such endeavors with, say, various tax exemptions? Of course. This is the sound basis for tax exemptions for non-profit organizations, whose activities and finances are subject to IRS audit and public scrutiny. In the case of religious organizations, however, the books are closed.
    Non-church groups receiving tax exemptions must annually file a detailed 990 statement itemizing where the money has gone. The IRS automatically waives the 990 requirement for churches.
    I didn't read the entire thing because argument #1 is in direct contradiction with the definitive ruling of the Supreme Court (I can't remember hte case name - it originated several decades ago in Florida . . . I think it had to do with the slaughter of pigs or something? Vague memory here - so sorry. But I remember the final ruling from law class)

    Congress can pass certain types of regulation (like on taxation - because taxation is a government concern) . . . as long as it's applied FAIRLY to every form of religious 'entity' (church - etc).

    It cannot affect one type of faith (like Jewish) and not another (Catholic or Buddhist) by it's inherent nature - direct or indirect. (the case I vaguely remember was very indirect - having nothing to do with religion at all but did impact how a particular religion conducted itself).

    I'll look around and see if I can find it. . . it really clarifies how the first is applied an considered in the eyes of the law.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Seriously consider before voting

    Freedom of worship and religion is a Constitutional right. We honor the constitution by not taxing churches and other places of worship like mosques and synagogues. The church doesn't run the state and the state doesn't run or infringe upon the church. Giving the government power to tax churches is infringing upon a right to worship since churches and places of worship would have to pay taxes to provide a place for people to do so. The government could indirectly outlaw churches and public worship by taxing them to an unbearable level. Most churches have very very tight budgets and they are accountable to the congregants who typically have the ability to vote on financial issues or appoint deacons/elders to vote on them. It's an internal accountability, not an accountability to the government.

    Now, if the "church" was actually a for profit business operating under the guise of a church to avoid taxation that is one thing.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Seriously consider before voting

    The wording of the poll is horrible, suggesting that a no vote mean you're anti-Constitution. If only one type church was made tax exempt, that would violate the Establishment Clause. If all churches are treated the same, there is no constitutional violation.

  4. #24
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    Re: Seriously consider before voting

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    The wording of the poll is horrible, suggesting that a no vote mean you're anti-Constitution. If only one type church was made tax exempt, that would violate the Establishment Clause. If all churches are treated the same, there is no constitutional violation.

    The OP does not appear to be much interested in dissenting opinions, other than shouting them down.

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    Re: Seriously consider before voting

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    The OP does not appear to be much interested in dissenting opinions, other than shouting them down.
    Well I don't think the real issue for the OP is concern over the Constitution, but more she seems to have an ax to grind with religion. Just my opinion.

  6. #26
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    Re: Seriously consider before voting

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Well I don't think the real issue for the OP is concern over the Constitution, but more she seems to have an ax to grind with religion. Just my opinion.



    Give that man a cigar, he hit the nail on the head.



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  7. #27
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    Re: Seriously consider before voting

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Freedom of worship and religion is a Constitutional right. We honor the constitution by not taxing churches and other places of worship like mosques and synagogues. The church doesn't run the state and the state doesn't run or infringe upon the church. Giving the government power to tax churches is infringing upon a right to worship since churches and places of worship would have to pay taxes to provide a place for people to do so. The government could indirectly outlaw churches and public worship by taxing them to an unbearable level. Most churches have very very tight budgets and they are accountable to the congregants who typically have the ability to vote on financial issues or appoint deacons/elders to vote on them. It's an internal accountability, not an accountability to the government.

    Now, if the "church" was actually a for profit business operating under the guise of a church to avoid taxation that is one thing.
    Do you equally oppose CCW permits? If go to curch taxation is taboo then so should keep and bear arms taxation. Why is it fair and just to allow property owned by a "church" to recieve public services yet be exempt from the taxation used to support those services?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #28
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    Re: Seriously consider before voting

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    The wording of the poll is horrible, suggesting that a no vote mean you're anti-Constitution. If only one type church was made tax exempt, that would violate the Establishment Clause. If all churches are treated the same, there is no constitutional violation.
    That depends upon who gets to define what is a church. Can an atheist (or any other "believer") declare their home a church and thus be exempted from taxation? If my "church" fails to attract a significant congregation, is it then less of a "church"?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #29
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    Re: Seriously consider before voting

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Do you equally oppose CCW permits? If go to curch taxation is taboo then so should keep and bear arms taxation. Why is it fair and just to allow property owned by a "church" to recieve public services yet be exempt from the taxation used to support those services?
    Because churches are charitable organizations and charitable organizations should be able to receive tax exempt status. CCW permits have nothing to do with charity.

  10. #30
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    Re: Seriously consider before voting

    I see a lot of the replies to the OP as knee jerk attacks and twisting the issue to avoid the main point-

    Should Churches have to account for the monies they receive as donations like other non profits?

    I see many little churches, store fronts actually and i wonder why. I work with a few preachers supplying food for the needy and their congregations are tiny, one Church has 4 people attending who are not the immediate family.

    Requiring an accounting won't infringe the 1st A, might embarrass a few preachers though...

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