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Live as a survivalist or die?

Would you want to survive the collapse of society

  • Yes, survive at all cost

    Votes: 34 82.9%

  • No, better off dead.

    Votes: 7 17.1%
  • Total voters
    41
sawyerloggingon said:
I am reading a book by James Wesley Rawles, Patriot. It is about the collapse of society and a group of survivalist fighting off roving gangs of looters. The picture he paints is very dark with prisons emptied out and no rule of law. The survivalist stay locked in a steel shuttered house filled with food and water and watch the world around them collapse in riots, rape robbery and murder. I just started the book and it may have a happy ending but it makes me wonder if things got that bad would I even want to survive. So I ask the question of you guys, survive or die, which is preferable?

By the way James has an interesting survival blog. SurvivalBlog.com
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Survive of course....just not in a steel shuttered house. I think people in Utah will survive better than most because they've been preparing for the worst for almost 200 years. Every good Mormon keeps a pantry stocked full and taught how to survive in worst case scenarios. The main difference will be camping, hunting, gardening and pickling will become the norm instead of just for fun and relaxation.
 
Let me first say that I hope it never comes to it. For My daughters sake as well as the rest of the younger entitled generation. Although my family and I have prepped for a long time we hope we never use the stuff for anything other than camping. That said our prepping group would likely do better than most. We have good food stocks, Hunting weapons, defense weapons, Clothing, Water Stocks & sources, gear. We also have the know how to defend all of those things as I am certain we would be required to do so.

NotQuiteRight brings up a good point a lot of people overlook. The big city's would be the first to crumble. From the looting to the masses converging on them in search of aid. Once people got in they would be fighting to get out. I believe once you were in it would be impossible to get back out. Bridges can be a real pain and I expect they would be the first thing to get closed. They would at least be the place where gangs would post up in order to rob anyone crossing.

We would not bug in we would be bugging out. Can't say where to but we would be gone. We spend a great deal of time outdoors in all weather conditions so we are pretty acclimated to being in bad weather. But we do this on our terms not forced. That is the difference. Being forced into this would likely be very depressing. As bad as it would be we would still fight with everything we had to survive. Hopefully there would be good on the other side of whatever issue we faced.
 
Gina said:
Yes, there would be a dynamic change since the topic of this thread owes its premise to an unspecific calamity. That kind of chaos would not be exciting.
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How wouldn't it be exciting? You'd have to be on your toes!
 
You do know that Mad Max is just a movie, right?

The reality is that the real psychopaths who would flourish in this supposed anarchic wasteland are few and far between, and the rest of the population prefers law and order. There is just no realistic scenario where the character of the vast majority of people will suddenly change, nor one where "society will collapse". That only happens in fiction. Just like the fictional world that survivalists base their decisions on.
 
My hero, Burt Gummer...

 
Tigger said:
"Patriot" is the name of the book. I've got a copy at home myself, and it's been an interesting read so far. There are at least two more books in the series.

Personally, I'd survive. Then again, that sort of society wouldn't bother me as much as it probably would many of you; since it's a lot closer to my utopia than what we live in today.
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Good afternoon, Tigger.

The book is a frightening read! Another is "The Road," which was also made into a movie.

When law and order break down, and everything that can be looted or stolen has been, starvation follows...and then cannibalism, if history is any guide. Since our food stores normally only have a three-day supply of food on hand, and no deliveries possible to replenish the stock, what will people do? Depending upon how long something like that could last, and depending how prepared you are to weather it, will probably determine your fate. Would our military step in and run things, as they did in Libya and other places? Will everyone at that point be willing to work for food?

During the Y2K scare of 13 years ago, both the government and companies spent millions of dollars to ensure that electronics and computers would still function. In a total collapse, those things would soon be worthless, IMO. Money won't be worth anything, but food and water will, if you have the means to protect what you have, and the knowledge to grow food for future use...including animals. Too many people do not have that knowledge today, I'm afraid. Too easy to stop at McDonalds or Taco Bell when you're hungry. :(
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
How wouldn't it be exciting? You'd have to be on your toes!
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Ok, what about my numerous elders? One can't walk. Another can't walk distances. A third has a hip replacement. A fourth is has Alzheimer's to the extent she can't live alone, but isn't ready for a home. The rest are merely old and all are on medications they cannot live long without.

On my toes? Yeah, I might have half a chance with my kids. Them? How am I going to care for them?

Thank you, I'd rather do without chaos, especially that which ends the lives of the people who have cared for me all my life.
 
I'd survive regardless.

Can we up the ante by making this collapse of society one based in a zombie apocalypse movie?
 
Gina said:
One more thought, my father is a survivalist. The contemplation of the end of society was an anchor around my neck since I was old enough to understand it and until i could make my own life.

If any of you survivalists have children, consider not saddling them with end of the world talk while they are young. Preparation, fine, but constant vigilance and discussion about contemporary events and how those events could end life as they know it, not so much. Life is fraught enough with everyday worries for kids without end of the world talk on a regular basis.

/end of buzz kill
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I am a 'survivalist' I reckon. My kids...better at it than me. Our family has an 'Alamo' that we would all do our best to get to and gather at should things get completely hinkey. Its sustainable and defensible. But should getting there be impossible, we grab 1 pack each and head into the mountains. I wouldnt stick around near cities and wouldnt try to defend my current home.

People thinking about stockpiling weapons ought to do some serious logistics. If you have to go mobile, you can carry several thousand rounds of 22 magnum or LR ammunition. You arent carrying that much .223 or .308 ammo very far.
 
Paschendale said:
You do know that Mad Max is just a movie, right?

The reality is that the real psychopaths who would flourish in this supposed anarchic wasteland are few and far between, and the rest of the population prefers law and order. There is just no realistic scenario where the character of the vast majority of people will suddenly change, nor one where "society will collapse". That only happens in fiction. Just like the fictional world that survivalists base their decisions on.
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I think most major cities will be abandoned and those that are left will basically play king of the ****pile and spend most of their time killing each other off. The surviving part of society (and that which will reinvest in law and order) will be small towns (should it ever come to that).

I dont know that i really much fear it will ever come to that.
 
On the list of things I have to worry about surviving, an imaginary collapse of civilization isn't on it.
 
Paschendale said:
You do know that Mad Max is just a movie, right?

The reality is that the real psychopaths who would flourish in this supposed anarchic wasteland are few and far between, and the rest of the population prefers law and order. There is just no realistic scenario where the character of the vast majority of people will suddenly change, nor one where "society will collapse". That only happens in fiction. Just like the fictional world that survivalists base their decisions on.
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Pasch, there have been studies done on starvation... and after about ten days, people start turning "feral". Their higher brain functions become secondary to the portions of the brain that focus on survival issues. Their normal morals and restraints tend to go out the window in search for food, and past a certain point most people will kill for a mouthful if they can find it, and won't care whose it is.

Civilization is a thin veneer that tends to work as long as we're well-fed, warm and dry... when someone is hungry, cold and wet... so starved their brain is no longer working right... that person is dangerous, even if ten days before they were an accountant who pasttime was fundraising for the Shriners' Childrens' Hospital.

When a man's children are starving, looking at him and saying "Daddy, I'm so hungry, I think I'm going to die if I don't eat"... you don't want to get between that man and a food supply. I don't care if he was a Guidance Councelor at the high school two weeks ago, he's now a dangerous man.

Depending on the scale and effects, a high-altitude EMP over North America could put us in that scenario... it is one of my major concerns with NK and Iran developing nukes and putting things in orbit with missles.
 
As long as I get to be Lord Humongous, plus I'm gonna team up with Kori and Goshin.
I promise I have valuable skills.

humongous.jpg
 
Paschendale said:
You do know that Mad Max is just a movie, right?

The reality is that the real psychopaths who would flourish in this supposed anarchic wasteland are few and far between, and the rest of the population prefers law and order. There is just no realistic scenario where the character of the vast majority of people will suddenly change, nor one where "society will collapse". That only happens in fiction. Just like the fictional world that survivalists base their decisions on.
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One word, Rwanda.
 
VanceMack said:
I am a 'survivalist' I reckon. My kids...better at it than me. Our family has an 'Alamo' that we would all do our best to get to and gather at should things get completely hinkey. Its sustainable and defensible. But should getting there be impossible, we grab 1 pack each and head into the mountains. I wouldnt stick around near cities and wouldnt try to defend my current home.

People thinking about stockpiling weapons ought to do some serious logistics. If you have to go mobile, you can carry several thousand rounds of 22 magnum or LR ammunition. You arent carrying that much .223 or .308 ammo very far.
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I remember a survivalist fantasy book where a huge wave blankets the left coast, massive earthquakes, etc. One character's 'Alamo' was occupied before he could get there. A rogue Army unit gathers desperate folks to it's banner as it sweeps across the countryside, growing and needing to constantly pillage to keep itself fed.

What weapons to drag where has always been a good debate. a 22 works well on small critters but if some determined 2 footed kind want to mix it up the 22 lacks dependability. You might be hauling a lot of small game ammo to another group.

I did enough time under a ruck to think much can be hauled very far for very long by anyone not in peak condition.

My thought on the bugout compound is unless it has a competent permanent party and already stocked so the arriving folks just need to bring a bare minimum, cuts transport down and flexibility of the trekkers up, it most likely will not be a refuge for you when you need it most.

These situations remind me of that 'War Games' movie where before launching an actual strike the computer runs through every conceivable scenario only to conclude there is no winner.
 
MaggieD said:
I've already answered this post, but I had another thought. I don't have enough ammunition. Or enough guns.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility that power grids could be taken out by terrorists that would put us in the dark for 4-5 months. That's reality. If that ever happened, we would quickly revert to survival of the fittest. Bullets would count.
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FEMA lists EMP as very real threat. Depending on how big it is you could actually have that scenario, more likely in highly populated areas. If you are far enough away you might not lose your devices but the grid would still be wrecked and communication would be tough. I know guys who literally have ham radios in metal boxes in the ground. Preppers are not necessarily worried about the government, the bigest threat would really be the people running from the cities.
 
I don't care if the power goes out just so the cable does not :)
 
notquiteright said:
I remember a survivalist fantasy book where a huge wave blankets the left coast, massive earthquakes, etc. One character's 'Alamo' was occupied before he could get there. A rogue Army unit gathers desperate folks to it's banner as it sweeps across the countryside, growing and needing to constantly pillage to keep itself fed.

What weapons to drag where has always been a good debate. a 22 works well on small critters but if some determined 2 footed kind want to mix it up the 22 lacks dependability. You might be hauling a lot of small game ammo to another group.

I did enough time under a ruck to think much can be hauled very far for very long by anyone not in peak condition.

My thought on the bugout compound is unless it has a competent permanent party and already stocked so the arriving folks just need to bring a bare minimum, cuts transport down and flexibility of the trekkers up, it most likely will not be a refuge for you when you need it most.

These situations remind me of that 'War Games' movie where before launching an actual strike the computer runs through every conceivable scenario only to conclude there is no winner.
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Our 'Alamo' is currently occupied by 'family'. Im really not thinking about getting into a sustained firefight with a whole lot of people. I dont see that as a winning scenario. If we need to go full on survivalist mode each pack has several thousand rounds of 22lr ammo, 1 case of 45 ammo and some fishing gear, along with a good assortment of supplies that you would need to basically go cold weather camping and live for a good while in the mountains. A quick stop at the gun case on the way out and there are several Ruger 10/22s and a few MK2s, and for a bit more punch 45 carbines and 45 handguns (I'm a big fan of weapons redundancy).

I stress...I am not all that concerned about a worst case scenario. Big cities...maybe...but I think a lot of them have the potential on their current path to end up like Detroit already without a catastrophic 'push'.
 
CaptinSarcastic said:
I think the idea of some kind of post apocalyptic anarchy is central to modern dude fantasy. How would we, as individuals, fare without the protection of modern society? I don't want to find out, but if it came to it, I'd want to survive and learn whether I am a leader, follower, murderer, or protector. In any case, i would want a lot of bullets and whiskey.

You can trade bullets for anything, one way or another.
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Don't mean to alarm you but open up a browser window and see if you can find an ammo supplier right now who has any in stock. Seems a lot of people are thinking the same thing. It happened right after Sandy Hook and talk of new gun laws. Think about this: the annual production of 22ammo is about 2.5 BILLION rounds, and it's all gone except for the expensive match stuff. The military doesn't use 22 except for some practice ammo. Kinda makes you wonder doesn't it?
 
Gina said:
Ok, what about my numerous elders? One can't walk. Another can't walk distances. A third has a hip replacement. A fourth is has Alzheimer's to the extent she can't live alone, but isn't ready for a home. The rest are merely old and all are on medications they cannot live long without.

On my toes? Yeah, I might have half a chance with my kids. Them? How am I going to care for them?

Thank you, I'd rather do without chaos, especially that which ends the lives of the people who have cared for me all my life.
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Your choice.

“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
 
tech30528 said:
FEMA lists EMP as very real threat. Depending on how big it is you could actually have that scenario, more likely in highly populated areas. If you are far enough away you might not lose your devices but the grid would still be wrecked and communication would be tough. I know guys who literally have ham radios in metal boxes in the ground. Preppers are not necessarily worried about the government, the bigest threat would really be the people running from the cities.
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EMP is a real threat and would have significant repercussions. However, several things heavily mitigate that threat.

1: Lack of availability of missiles that could deliver an such a pulse.
2: EMP shielding is effective and relatively cheap. Most key facilities have it.
3: robust contingency plans that the government has to restore key services.
 
tech30528 said:
Don't mean to alarm you but open up a browser window and see if you can find an ammo supplier right now who has any in stock. Seems a lot of people are thinking the same thing. It happened right after Sandy Hook and talk of new gun laws. Think about this: the annual production of 22ammo is about 2.5 BILLION rounds, and it's all gone except for the expensive match stuff. The military doesn't use 22 except for some practice ammo. Kinda makes you wonder doesn't it?
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I was at a gunshow this last weekend. There was plenty on hand but purchases were limited.

I have always taught my kids...when you go shooting, if you plan to shoot 2, buy 4 and store 2. We have...plenty.
 
Gina said:
Ok, what about my numerous elders? One can't walk. Another can't walk distances. A third has a hip replacement. A fourth is has Alzheimer's to the extent she can't live alone, but isn't ready for a home. The rest are merely old and all are on medications they cannot live long without.

On my toes? Yeah, I might have half a chance with my kids. Them? How am I going to care for them?

Thank you, I'd rather do without chaos, especially that which ends the lives of the people who have cared for me all my life.
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I'd really prefer civilization be maintained, of course. One likes being able to go out for Chinese or Mexican on the weekend, and not getting shot at too often. :mrgreen:

When my Mom was alive, I had plans to take care of her. Had an Oxygen concentrator for her (she was on the stuff full time), a generator and other backup power to run it, stocked up on her meds, etc.

No plans to bug out... I live in a semi-rural area on the old family farm, in most scenarios I'm well-placed to stay put.

However if it came to having to bug out, it would likely have become impossible to keep her alive. She would NOT have wanted me and my son to sacrifice ourselves for her... her life was nearing its end and she knew that, she would not have wanted us to stay behind to die with her if it came to that.

Just as I wouldn't want my son to stay and die with me, if I was unable to keep up, and if he could continue on by himself and live.

Hard choices.... another good reason why I'd prefer to stick with civilization if possible.
 
Read Bill Fortschen's One Second After.

I'm not interested in survival at all costs, but this is a middle-aged perspective.
 
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