View Poll Results: Would you want to survive the collapse of society

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  • Yes, survive at all cost

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Thread: Live as a survivalist or die?

  1. #141
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Survivalist, preppers or whatever you want to call them get portrayed as nutty people by our media but you sound very reasonable and lucid. I keep saying I am not a prepper because I don't spend alot of time or energy thinking about it but I did choose a place to live that is extremely remote (3 miles from my nearest neighbor) and one of the many reasons why I chose this location was I feel very safe here. The collapse of society and the potential for roving bands of paramilitary type looting gangs has always been at the back of my mind. Really though I think it is at the back of everyones mind because it seems like most people that visit my place for the first time say something like "can I come live with you when the s*** hits the fan". They say it jokingly but it shows me most everyone thinks about this scenario at least a bit. I have stocked up on guns and ammo but I should pay more attention to a food supply of at least 6 months or so not to mention other essentials-luxury's like toilet paper. Hopefully my remote location with only one way in would keep me isolated from takers or at least make me at the very end of the list, especially after I fall a bunch of trees across my road.
    Im not a 'prepper, but I am 'prepared'. I dont know that there is any place int eh country where you might need to bug out for at least a little while. We always keep the vehicles above a half a tank and have gas on hand. We have most of our camping supplies (as well as water and easy prep food, extra clothes, and some camo bags with some 'extras') in the garage in secured bins to where literally I could back the truck into the garage, slide bins into the bed, throw a few extra propane bottle and gas cans in the truck, grab packs and sidearms and be mobile in 5-10 minutes. Our preparation is as much for an earthquake or some other form of natural disaster as it is the collapse of society.

  2. #142
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    Living here in the mountains we tend to be pretty well stocked. An ice storm can take out power for days and we live up on a mountain ridge. It's 1/2 mile to a paved road and when the leaves are on the trees you can't see another house. Right now we can see one. Around here there were still militias around until just a few years ago. Since then we have all shifted to Civilian Emergency Response Teams and work in conjunction with FEMA and GEMA. We get a lot of training and even some equipment from them for free. Basically if there is a disaster they call us and then assume an administrative role and we handle the feet on the ground stuff. The range of things you can learn in a group like this is amazing. I have a food preservation class this Sunday. There is also an instructor level pistol shoot but I can't be in two places at once so I'll miss that one.

    Listen, if you are at all concerned about any of this stuff find out about CERT or CERN teams in your area. You don't have to be "that guy", you can pick and choose what you want to do, but it never hurts to know "that guy". I don't really worry about societal collapse locally, I have about 100 friends in the county who are interested in everybody behaving themselves and getting thru it together.
    Three things that I will champion
    team effort(government and private working together)
    education(training and communications)
    prevention( the first two)
    and I see this in spades here.

  3. #143
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    There are all kinds of crazy theories about what could happen, but there are a lot of real life things too. For instance I have a basic bag for my family, one of those old monster military duffles that has clothes, food, water, things like that. With where we live, "Hey, the woods are on fire. Get in the truck" is a real possibility. Having what you need right at hand could save your life. Keep in mind societal collapse can be local. How about those people on the east coast who had that hurricane come thru? I heard one on the radio complaining that FEMA didn't have enough water on hand and had to get more. Who doesn't have a water filter? There was water everywhere! And it's not like it snuck up on them, they knew for a week it was coming. These idiots are the dangerous ones. They have nothing, know nothing and have a low ability to be able to think on their feet. I won't go in to how I suspect these people vote, I'm just saying a month after a major disaster conservatives might just be a super majority.

    BTW if you have the idea of hitting the road and fleeing the city for the mountains, keep in mind those of us already in the mountains will have to protect the supplies we have. Have a plan and be in contact with the folks who are expecting you. In our county if you don't have a local license plate and we can't contact your huckleberry you won't be getting in. Now, when the armed CERT guy comes to your car door and asks who you are going to see and we can verify you are expected you are golden. Welcome aboard. But short of that no matter how nice a guy you are you are a hazard to the community.
    Last edited by tech30528; 02-07-13 at 11:34 AM.

  4. #144
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I don't take it as a slam. No...I don't see a whole lot of profit in engaging my family in a civil war. Don't even care to know what that looks like. If it were to ever reach that point, law, order, constitution...lets just say I trust people. I trust them to act on their human nature. I think it far more likely in population centers you would see some form of forced "martial law"...for the 'good' of the people. No. I don't really like how that looks. Accepting that neither of us see it as a likely scenario, what is your world vision of how it might all end up?
    Oh I don't think there ever is a profit fighting for something, sacrifice for sure, but no profit. It is the classic question be it fighting to create a new nation or restoring law and order after a huge disaster versus pulling back and waiting for the dust to settle.

    I dunno about human nature, on the one hand so many decry the 'taker' mentality and the slow slide to chaos many think will cause this collapse of order, yet somehow believe in human nature. I guess the idea is those who survive and manage to cobble together some sort of order will be of a certain mindset and that human nature is what it meant.

    How it all ends up-
    I guess a lot depends on what started the mess. I see many collapses with only the cockroaches surviving. many diseases leaving so few survivors civilization is firmly set back. Funny thing about plagues is depending on how it is transmitted survivalists might be more at risk than more 'urban' folks. The Black Plague wiped out many isolated villages, got past guards at the town gate who turned away human carriers but of course couldn't stop rats. rather large population concentrations survived- monasteries among the most common due to better hygiene, cleanliness and grain storage so rats and fleas were not so common.

    My backround is grunt. For me numbers count, a base to operate from matters and a mix of skills in the group an asset. I can see certain farm communities being strong points for what is left of civilization to cling to. These days crops like corn, and wheat are stored in elevators until right before the new harvest- highest price is right before harvest and many elevators keep at least half capacity in old crop to take advantage of that pricing. So these places will have a strong bargaining chip in trade, gaining 'troops' for defense and paying outlying farmstead outposts to be manned as an outer perimeter and guard stations to help protect the cropland. these communities have rather healthy amounts of fuel in storage vs the population due to the needs of modern agriculture so that is a plus. The farm supply stores have barbed wire and T-posts to help fortify the town, small welding/repair shops to fabricate fixtures for the strongpoints and perhaps a few 'tin-clad' vehicles.

    The ability both in supplies and equipment to build fortifications, supplies to last through a lean time for food, a cadre population with a strong attachment to the town and surrounding areas, the ability to sort through refugees to decide who can help in the town defense...

    Politically I see a far less democratic form but still not 'martial', more like an EYE-talian city state where a gaggle of rich old men and their families run the town with outlying 'barons' formed from the larger farmer clans we have around here. There is a grandfather with at least 3 of his sons living within eyesight of each other out there, a nice repair shop and rather large grain storage, equipment to build strongpoints, local fuel storage....

    ahhh not that I have given this much thought ya understand...

  5. #145
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    This is a classic- out of the way, a not very hospitable land, energy self sufficient and well armed.

    I love a scoped rifle. You can hit a man in the head 6 football fields away, THAT can make 'em pause for a sec and rethink the situation.

    We had a saying in the Infantry back in the day- If it can be seen it can be hit, if it can be hit it can be killed.

    But we had another one- it aint the bastard you see, it is the two flanking you that you don't see that puts the crimp in your military career.

    A position's defense boils down to manpower on alert, sides to be defended and how well sited the strongpoints are. Triangular compounds reduce manpower requirements but the individual strongpoints must be well sited with good fields of fire and capable of a much broader arc.

    So how many people are on duty in the wee hours? Do they have the weapons to hold off a night attack until the rest of the compound can awaken and man positions? it is always a bad idea to expect the bad guys to do what you want them to do.

    We used to say, the enemy has a vote too.

    Now you mention a list of stuff you figure you need to survive. Is this stuff pre-positioned out at the high desert location or are you hauling it out there?

    Just out of curiosity what sort of things do you feel are required? What does it weigh?

    The various plans are always interesting, and great learning tools.
    Its likely we won't be found at all. We're down in a valley between two high points, flat desert all around. Decomposed granite rockpiles. Think Joshua Tree.

    "Roads" out there are random and unmarked. Vehicles throw dust, even moving slowly.

    Everybody would just take cover up in the rocks and make it very unpleasant for any invaders. Massive terrain advantage. A group with military weapons would be a problem. But starving hordes of city dwellers would NEVER come out there in the first place. No open water anywhere. No city power wells would be functioning either. Ours are solar powered and there's over a thousand gallons in tanks.

    Last I checked there was at least 6 months of food. Plus they know what native plants to eat and keep chickens. Rabbits are plentiful, but have a parasite. Good for the dogs at least in a pinch. Deer are in the mountains nearby. The residents are vegetarian, but not vegan, and of the "seven pounds of grain for a pound of beef" variety. They'll eat meat if thats all there is.

    It's not a "survivalist" group. But smart and possessing a broad skill base.

    We could do a lot worse.

    We just need to get there. If there's warning we'll take our RV. If not, the foot route is already mapped. It would suck, over a hundred miles. That's why we keep our ear to the ground. I'd rather bolt too soon than have to walk. We can always come home from a false alarm.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  6. #146
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    There are all kinds of crazy theories about what could happen, but there are a lot of real life things too. For instance I have a basic bag for my family, one of those old monster military duffles that has clothes, food, water, things like that. With where we live, "Hey, the woods are on fire. Get in the truck" is a real possibility. Having what you need right at hand could save your life. Keep in mind societal collapse can be local. How about those people on the east coast who had that hurricane come thru? I heard one on the radio complaining that FEMA didn't have enough water on hand and had to get more. Who doesn't have a water filter? There was water everywhere! And it's not like it snuck up on them, they knew for a week it was coming. These idiots are the dangerous ones. They have nothing, know nothing and have a low ability to be able to think on their feet. I won't go in to how I suspect these people vote, I'm just saying a month after a major disaster conservatives might just be a super majority.

    BTW if you have the idea of hitting the road and fleeing the city for the mountains, keep in mind those of us already in the mountains will have to protect the supplies we have. Have a plan and be in contact with the folks who are expecting you. In our county if you don't have a local license plate and we can't contact your huckleberry you won't be getting in. Now, when the armed CERT guy comes to your car door and asks who you are going to see and we can verify you are expected you are golden. Welcome aboard. But short of that no matter how nice a guy you are you are a hazard to the community.
    You hit the nail on the head. A lot of people I know do not and will not prepare for even a local disaster, Tornado, Snow or ice Storms, Etc let alone if some major issue occurred. They believe they will just pack up the truck and head into the woods. Only problem is somebody likely owns that land or it is inhabited by another group already. If they don't know you are coming and do not know you it may be trouble. I try to tell them to spend a couple hours just making a plan. Buy a pack for each one in the group and stock it accordingly. It is easy for people who spend time outdoors already since we already have most of the stuff needed. Lots of good info out there on the subject and plenty of it is online. No excuse not to be prepared.

  7. #147
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    There are all kinds of crazy theories about what could happen, but there are a lot of real life things too. For instance I have a basic bag for my family, one of those old monster military duffles that has clothes, food, water, things like that. With where we live, "Hey, the woods are on fire. Get in the truck" is a real possibility. Having what you need right at hand could save your life. Keep in mind societal collapse can be local. How about those people on the east coast who had that hurricane come thru? I heard one on the radio complaining that FEMA didn't have enough water on hand and had to get more. Who doesn't have a water filter? There was water everywhere! And it's not like it snuck up on them, they knew for a week it was coming. These idiots are the dangerous ones. They have nothing, know nothing and have a low ability to be able to think on their feet. I won't go in to how I suspect these people vote, I'm just saying a month after a major disaster conservatives might just be a super majority.

    BTW if you have the idea of hitting the road and fleeing the city for the mountains, keep in mind those of us already in the mountains will have to protect the supplies we have. Have a plan and be in contact with the folks who are expecting you. In our county if you don't have a local license plate and we can't contact your huckleberry you won't be getting in. Now, when the armed CERT guy comes to your car door and asks who you are going to see and we can verify you are expected you are golden. Welcome aboard. But short of that no matter how nice a guy you are you are a hazard to the community.
    very good points- do want to point out a couple of things. What actually happened is the local water sources are to provide immediate supply with FEMA then hiring other sources to bring in more water. FEMA doesn't keep millions of gallons stored anywhere. Some tried to use the contracts FEMA put out for more water as a lack of preparedness.

    Next point is the use of most water filters on urban water sources. These water filters filter out certain organisms, dirt and the like but they do not filter out chemicals. Urban water can easily contain many chemicals not found in a mountain stream. I'm not sure I'd be trying to filter and drink it.

    There might very well be more 'conservatives' after a huge disaster that devastates large population centers but if they drink a lot of city runoff through water filter straws their kids might have two heads but still only one vote!

  8. #148
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Heaven help our nation if ever there is a nationwide disaster and the conservatives are a "super majority".
    We need a balance between the conservatives and the liberals, but with both willing to work together.
    well....dream on...

  9. #149
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Oh I don't think there ever is a profit fighting for something, sacrifice for sure, but no profit. It is the classic question be it fighting to create a new nation or restoring law and order after a huge disaster versus pulling back and waiting for the dust to settle.

    I dunno about human nature, on the one hand so many decry the 'taker' mentality and the slow slide to chaos many think will cause this collapse of order, yet somehow believe in human nature. I guess the idea is those who survive and manage to cobble together some sort of order will be of a certain mindset and that human nature is what it meant.

    How it all ends up-
    I guess a lot depends on what started the mess. I see many collapses with only the cockroaches surviving. many diseases leaving so few survivors civilization is firmly set back. Funny thing about plagues is depending on how it is transmitted survivalists might be more at risk than more 'urban' folks. The Black Plague wiped out many isolated villages, got past guards at the town gate who turned away human carriers but of course couldn't stop rats. rather large population concentrations survived- monasteries among the most common due to better hygiene, cleanliness and grain storage so rats and fleas were not so common.

    My backround is grunt. For me numbers count, a base to operate from matters and a mix of skills in the group an asset. I can see certain farm communities being strong points for what is left of civilization to cling to. These days crops like corn, and wheat are stored in elevators until right before the new harvest- highest price is right before harvest and many elevators keep at least half capacity in old crop to take advantage of that pricing. So these places will have a strong bargaining chip in trade, gaining 'troops' for defense and paying outlying farmstead outposts to be manned as an outer perimeter and guard stations to help protect the cropland. these communities have rather healthy amounts of fuel in storage vs the population due to the needs of modern agriculture so that is a plus. The farm supply stores have barbed wire and T-posts to help fortify the town, small welding/repair shops to fabricate fixtures for the strongpoints and perhaps a few 'tin-clad' vehicles.

    The ability both in supplies and equipment to build fortifications, supplies to last through a lean time for food, a cadre population with a strong attachment to the town and surrounding areas, the ability to sort through refugees to decide who can help in the town defense...

    Politically I see a far less democratic form but still not 'martial', more like an EYE-talian city state where a gaggle of rich old men and their families run the town with outlying 'barons' formed from the larger farmer clans we have around here. There is a grandfather with at least 3 of his sons living within eyesight of each other out there, a nice repair shop and rather large grain storage, equipment to build strongpoints, local fuel storage....

    ahhh not that I have given this much thought ya understand...
    Worlds of difference between unified battle to sustain the republic and an end of days anarchy, dont you think? One is definitely worth fighting for...the other...let the wretched refuse kill each other off first. The OP was not about rallying to defend the country...it was about an end of days scenario. The picture painted was that of a handful of survivalists pinned ina steel building with anarchy death and violence all around you. To that, my answer remains the same.

  10. #150
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    very good points- do want to point out a couple of things. What actually happened is the local water sources are to provide immediate supply with FEMA then hiring other sources to bring in more water. FEMA doesn't keep millions of gallons stored anywhere. Some tried to use the contracts FEMA put out for more water as a lack of preparedness.

    Next point is the use of most water filters on urban water sources. These water filters filter out certain organisms, dirt and the like but they do not filter out chemicals. Urban water can easily contain many chemicals not found in a mountain stream. I'm not sure I'd be trying to filter and drink it.

    There might very well be more 'conservatives' after a huge disaster that devastates large population centers but if they drink a lot of city runoff through water filter straws their kids might have two heads but still only one vote!
    Lol, I hear you there. Filtered gasoline is still gasoline. Toilet tanks contain a couple gallons of fresh water. When I lived in Okinawa (3 years) when we had typhoons coming in the island would shut down public water sources. We had fair warning and would clean and fill the bathtub first.

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