View Poll Results: Would you want to survive the collapse of society

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  • Yes, survive at all cost

    34 80.95%
  • No, better off dead.

    8 19.05%
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Thread: Live as a survivalist or die?

  1. #121
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    EMP is a real threat and would have significant repercussions. However, several things heavily mitigate that threat.

    1: Lack of availability of missiles that could deliver an such a pulse.
    ...
    Upon further thought the Starfish tests utilized a 1.4kt device. The calculations and predictions offer the ‘best’ coverage at 60km altitude. A W25 warhead produces this yield and weighs a mere 220lbs. Considering this it seems quite plausible such a device could be transported to altitude with a balloon… which of course is neither hard to secure or suspicious…
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

  2. #122
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I am reading a book by James Wesley Rawles, Patriot. It is about the collapse of society and a group of survivalist fighting off roving gangs of looters. The picture he paints is very dark with prisons emptied out and no rule of law. The survivalist stay locked in a steel shuttered house filled with food and water and watch the world around them collapse in riots, rape robbery and murder. I just started the book and it may have a happy ending but it makes me wonder if things got that bad would I even want to survive. So I ask the question of you guys, survive or die, which is preferable?

    By the way James has an interesting survival blog. SurvivalBlog.com
    Thank you for the suggestion. It sounds like a very interesting read.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    If anarchy becomes the norm, first thing we should do is kill all the violent felons right in the prisons....
    As I posted just the other day. Our inner city thugs and criminals which are not in prison would very likely pose a real significant threat against the citizens of our country should a real crisis occur, particularly in our urban environments.

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    I'd wanna survive. I hope I get to see this day. Yay anarchy and lawlessness.
    A small selfish part of me dreams of the day total anarchy occurs. Since my childhood I have had a great interest in outdoor survival and have spent countless hours studying techniques and practice. By the time I was an adult I had more knowledge then most people and would spend many nights alone in the wood with only minimal supplies to test my self. Not all adventures turned out pleasant but I wouldn't have traded them for more plush activities. Richard Proenneke was a idol of mine as a child and I dreamed of living off the grid in a self reliant manner without modern amenities, sadly my life took a different turn and I strayed away from that dream but the dream has never left me. Some of us feel that modern society with all its technology and possessions only disconnects us from what really matters in life and more is not always better.

    If its going to happen it needs to happen soon! Im getting to old for that sorta thing

  3. #123
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Arrows don't well withstand multiple uses. I used to bowhunt...but I wouldn't want to trust my life to one for defensive purposes or hunting.
    A) The newer carbon arrows are much more durable than the old aluminums.

    B)In honing my (and others) skills I/we handmade bows using simple hand tools; axe, knife, sand/rocks (for sanding) and sinew for strings. We fashioned arrows from river cane, fletched with turkey feathers and tipped with knapped flint heads…one of my ‘crew’ was successful in harvesting a deer but the rest of us lost interest…but we ALL (4) did make weapons that were deadly enough...when the bullets/powder runs out one must be prepared...it still beats a spear.
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

  4. #124
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    A) The newer carbon arrows are much more durable than the old aluminums.

    B)In honing my (and others) skills I/we handmade bows using simple hand tools; axe, knife, sand/rocks (for sanding) and sinew for strings. We fashioned arrows from river cane, fletched with turkey feathers and tipped with knapped flint heads…one of my ‘crew’ was successful in harvesting a deer but the rest of us lost interest…but we ALL (4) did make weapons that were deadly enough...when the bullets/powder runs out one must be prepared...it still beats a spear.
    Cool! The indians survived doing it.

  5. #125
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Our 'Alamo' is currently occupied by 'family'. Im really not thinking about getting into a sustained firefight with a whole lot of people. I dont see that as a winning scenario. If we need to go full on survivalist mode each pack has several thousand rounds of 22lr ammo, 1 case of 45 ammo and some fishing gear, along with a good assortment of supplies that you would need to basically go cold weather camping and live for a good while in the mountains. A quick stop at the gun case on the way out and there are several Ruger 10/22s and a few MK2s, and for a bit more punch 45 carbines and 45 handguns (I'm a big fan of weapons redundancy).

    I stress...I am not all that concerned about a worst case scenario. Big cities...maybe...but I think a lot of them have the potential on their current path to end up like Detroit already without a catastrophic 'push'.
    You have got my attention. I get into 'what if' discussions all the time. My thought is if one side is armed with 22s the firefight won't last long. The heavy nod to 45 cal ammo seems counterproductive to the weight issue. I carry a 45, love it but the ammo is within 50 grains of the weight of my go to rifle, the 308. To each their own of course but the 308 reaches farther with more accuracy so seems a better defense and hunting choice. Your two seem too light on one end and too heavy on the other. I'd go for more streamlined, a middle weight with a lot more reach to the punch.

    Anywho I'm sure you have weighed these packs you describe, what do they come in around? I was light Infantry, just curious how much you intent to hump how far. Another question I have is how long is 'a good while in the mountains'?

    I must admit I have not been in Detroit but hadn't heard it had become a Mad Max movie. damn lamestream media....

  6. #126
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I remember a survivalist fantasy book where a huge wave blankets the left coast, massive earthquakes, etc. One character's 'Alamo' was occupied before he could get there. A rogue Army unit gathers desperate folks to it's banner as it sweeps across the countryside, growing and needing to constantly pillage to keep itself fed.

    What weapons to drag where has always been a good debate. a 22 works well on small critters but if some determined 2 footed kind want to mix it up the 22 lacks dependability. You might be hauling a lot of small game ammo to another group.

    I did enough time under a ruck to think much can be hauled very far for very long by anyone not in peak condition.

    My thought on the bugout compound is unless it has a competent permanent party and already stocked so the arriving folks just need to bring a bare minimum, cuts transport down and flexibility of the trekkers up, it most likely will not be a refuge for you when you need it most.

    These situations remind me of that 'War Games' movie where before launching an actual strike the computer runs through every conceivable scenario only to conclude there is no winner.
    Friends have an off grid place with its.own wells in the high desert near here.

    Tucked away 7+ miles down the dirt roads in the apparent middle of nowhere.

    Stocked and armed.

    But just on general principles. They like being self sufficient. "Prepping" was just a good idea that paid off when they were snowed in for six weeks.

    The worlds trajectory kind of freaked me out when I was like 9, and I spent the next twenty plus years preparing myself for the apocalypse. Just about got that Heinlein list down, plus a bunch of stuff thats not in there.

    Nature or some bastard could take the world we live in down. Our society is far more fragile than most people think, IMO.

    But I think odds are good that enough would come together and put things back into some kind of order.

    The ruthless bastards are only a rifle.scope away. Cut off the head a few times and the "troops" will lose cohesion. Rogue military units would be the worst case scenario.

    But I think we'd make it. (Humanity, that is)
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  7. #127
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    See some of these things to me seem like a waste of time. I've had the magnesium blocks, flint strikers, bows, all that fun stuff. But in reality I don't take any of that stuff with me in to the woods. When I head off on the AT I have two mini-bics. One is in my pocket, the other is in my pack. I don't buy waterproof matches either. These lighters are cheap. I buy a whole card of them and put them everywhere. There will be plenty of time to practice rubbing sticks together later.

    As for the ammo as long as you are not going to be target shooting a little goes a long way. My 30cal ammo comes in 440 round spam cans. How many deer you thinknyou might need in a year? 10? You've potentialls got enough for 44 years from one can. And nobody gets one can. They're about $80 a can. 1000 rounds of 22 can cost as little as $40. The stuff I like is about $110 per 1000. If you have friends and a stable community you don't need much. Of course once you start buyingnit there's no such thing as too much.

  8. #128
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Friends have an off grid place with its.own wells in the high desert near here. Tucked away 7+ miles down the dirt roads in the apparent middle of nowhere. Stocked and armed. But just on general principles. They like being self sufficient. "Prepping" was just a good idea that paid off when they were snowed in for six weeks. The worlds trajectory kind of freaked me out when I was like 9, and I spent the next twenty plus years preparing myself for the apocalypse. Just about got that Heinlein list down, plus a bunch of stuff thats not in there. Nature or some bastard could take the world we live in down. Our society is far more fragile than most people think, IMO. But I think odds are good that enough would come together and put things back into some kind of order. The ruthless bastards are only a rifle.scope away. Cut off the head a few times and the "troops" will lose cohesion. Rogue military units would be the worst case scenario.

    But I think we'd make it. (Humanity, that is)
    This is a classic- out of the way, a not very hospitable land, energy self sufficient and well armed.

    I love a scoped rifle. You can hit a man in the head 6 football fields away, THAT can make 'em pause for a sec and rethink the situation.

    We had a saying in the Infantry back in the day- If it can be seen it can be hit, if it can be hit it can be killed.

    But we had another one- it aint the bastard you see, it is the two flanking you that you don't see that puts the crimp in your military career.

    A position's defense boils down to manpower on alert, sides to be defended and how well sited the strongpoints are. Triangular compounds reduce manpower requirements but the individual strongpoints must be well sited with good fields of fire and capable of a much broader arc.

    So how many people are on duty in the wee hours? Do they have the weapons to hold off a night attack until the rest of the compound can awaken and man positions? it is always a bad idea to expect the bad guys to do what you want them to do.

    We used to say, the enemy has a vote too.

    Now you mention a list of stuff you figure you need to survive. Is this stuff pre-positioned out at the high desert location or are you hauling it out there?

    Just out of curiosity what sort of things do you feel are required? What does it weigh?

    The various plans are always interesting, and great learning tools.

  9. #129
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Or a less nefarious cause like one of these could initiate such:

    A solar 'superstorm' is coming and we'll only get 30-minute warning - Science - News - The Independent

    This article also suggests the infrastructure is incapable of handling such an event.
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

  10. #130
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    Re: Live as a survivalist or die?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    You have got my attention. I get into 'what if' discussions all the time. My thought is if one side is armed with 22s the firefight won't last long. The heavy nod to 45 cal ammo seems counterproductive to the weight issue. I carry a 45, love it but the ammo is within 50 grains of the weight of my go to rifle, the 308. To each their own of course but the 308 reaches farther with more accuracy so seems a better defense and hunting choice. Your two seem too light on one end and too heavy on the other. I'd go for more streamlined, a middle weight with a lot more reach to the punch.

    Anywho I'm sure you have weighed these packs you describe, what do they come in around? I was light Infantry, just curious how much you intent to hump how far. Another question I have is how long is 'a good while in the mountains'?

    I must admit I have not been in Detroit but hadn't heard it had become a Mad Max movie. damn lamestream media....
    Don't miss the point. I don't think it is going to come down to a lead on lead confrontation. If it does Im thinking the conflict would be far more likely within 100 yards, not in excess. If it is in excess of 100 yards, my ass is finding and shooting from cover. The 45 Carbine is plenty accurate and that it is the same munitions as the handgun means I don't have to carry 22, 45 AND 308 ammo. Yes, the 308 is a better defensive AND hunting weapon...but for weight and mobility...I'll stick with the 22 and 45 combo.

    As for how long a good while is in the mountains...I reckon that would be as long as it needs to be. Kinda tough to know considering the circumstances we are talking about. I raised 2 Eagle scouts and taught a whole lot more. I always used to tell them "I don't so much mind it if you ever get lost in the mountains, but if when they find you you don't have a structure built with some form of running water, Ima snatch that eagle patch off your shoulder". Im comfortable in the mountains. Ive spent lots of time in the mountains. Ive done summer and winter survival camps in the mountains. My boys have spent entire summers in the mountains. If **** gets desperate amongst polite society, personally...Id rather be there than here. How far we got, how far we could go on 4 wheels...that all depends on the circumstances. We are already country...so we are halfway there. We have enough camping supplies and materials at any time at our home to support 4-5 families. Just who we are.

    And I want to stress...I DONT think it is likely. The mobile part...that's just not much of a stretch for us.

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