View Poll Results: Are Nazis or Communists worse?

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  • Communists

    20 25.00%
  • Nazis

    52 65.00%
  • I am a Nazi/Communist

    2 2.50%
  • Rootabega

    6 7.50%
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Thread: Which are worse for you? Nazis or Communists?

  1. #101
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    Re: Which are worse for you? Nazis or Communists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    That's the only real difference, the economic policy between commies and nazis
    That is correct. And even this difference is rather a matter of phase, not of direction or intention. The Soviets had a decade of "New Economic Policy" in the 20s when Lenin had allowed plenty of private enterprise, as well as foreign investment and operations ("concessions"), under tight government control.From the beginning, it was intended as a temprorary compromise (Trotsky insisted on total State control being resumed ASAP, Stalin was more pragamtic)

    If you take this timeframe, and compare with the Nazis or a milder case of radical socialism, like the Fascists or their cousins in Spain and Portugal, the difference disappears.

  2. #102
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    Re: Which are worse for you? Nazis or Communists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Many elements of fascism were adopted by developed countries.
    We just don't call it fascism today.
    Perhaps the one thing in common with Nazism, fascism and communism was all wanted to control business and the people making them work for the good of the state and not necessary for the good of themselves. If one is honest, I am an old fart who grew up in the 50's, I have seen our government move closer and closer in controling business and trying to control our economy. But even so, unlike the big three, Nazism, facism, communism, this striving for more governmental control was done to protect the people and not necessarily to make them slaves of the state. But there is an old saying, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." One has to wonder if we are not moving closer and closer to the controls these big three imposed on business but instead of the reason of it being good for the state, our reason is it is good for the people? But aren't we ending up with a top down government, where government decides what is good for the people instead of the people deciding what government is good for them?
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  3. #103
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    Re: Which are worse for you? Nazis or Communists?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Fascism > Communism
    Fascism ≠ Nazism.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  4. #104
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    Re: Which are worse for you? Nazis or Communists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Perhaps the one thing in common with Nazism, fascism and communism was all wanted to control business and the people making them work for the good of the state and not necessary for the good of themselves. If one is honest, I am an old fart who grew up in the 50's, I have seen our government move closer and closer in controling business and trying to control our economy. But even so, unlike the big three, Nazism, facism, communism, this striving for more governmental control was done to protect the people and not necessarily to make them slaves of the state. But there is an old saying, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." One has to wonder if we are not moving closer and closer to the controls these big three imposed on business but instead of the reason of it being good for the state, our reason is it is good for the people? But aren't we ending up with a top down government, where government decides what is good for the people instead of the people deciding what government is good for them?
    I just think governments and people go in cycles.
    Eventually there may be some totalitarian states develop, then it will collapse and we may start over again.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #105
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    Re: Which are worse for you? Nazis or Communists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Fascism ≠ Nazism.
    The Nazi's were fascists. Fascism may not = Nazism, but Nazism = Fascism.

  6. #106
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    Re: Which are worse for you? Nazis or Communists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    communism which, like Christianity, has a myriad of interpretations, sects, forms and features to the point that saying 'communism is this' is meaningless
    I assume we are talking about the fairly monolithic and well-defined Soviet Communism: Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin and its international metastases - Mao, Enver Hoxha, Kim Il Sung, Pol Pot, et al.

    Some young morons calling their coffehouse handwaving group International Democratic Communist Solidarity Movement, or whatever, do not count as one of the "myriad of sects".
    Last edited by Cyrylek; 02-06-13 at 10:16 AM.

  7. #107
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    Re: Which are worse for you? Nazis or Communists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I just think governments and people go in cycles.
    Eventually there may be some totalitarian states develop, then it will collapse and we may start over again.
    Ah, the spinning wheel of history or time. You are probably right.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  8. #108
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    Re: Which are worse for you? Nazis or Communists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    I see we wandered into American right-wing bizarroworld, where up is down, in is out, and Nazi's are leftwing. This viewoint is a relatively recent revision of history unique to the US right. Curiously it tends to be the far right who subscribe to this view, which if the Nazis were indeed left of centre, leaves themselves as the extremist right position.
    Yeah, fascists' were a bunch of free-marketeers. That's why they believed in seizing state control of industry, banning capital gains, and the redistribution of wealth.

    If this works out like it typically does, then this is the part where you say:

    "Oh but Hitler banned unions"

    at which point I will say

    "Yes, just like those famous right-wingers Stalin and Mao; interestingly enough, all three men doing it for the exact same reason : 'Because the unions were the government now, so you didn't need them'."

    At which point (assuming a standard conversation on this topic here) you will say something akin to

    "[Insert-ad-hominem-here-with-while-avoiding-answering-the-point!]" "[claim that fascism was violent and conservatives are all violent nuts so therefore they must have been conservative!]"

    But perhaps you will surprise me and come up with something different.





    You know, at least Viktyr Kormir is honest about his belief system. Fascism was an outgrowth in the early 20th Century of the left. That doesn't make leftists good or bad today, any more than it makes conservatives good or bad today; it simply places them in their historical context of National Socialism v the Comintern model.

  9. #109
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    Re: Which are worse for you? Nazis or Communists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    That is correct. And even this difference is rather a matter of phase, not of direction or intention. The Soviets had a decade of "New Economic Policy" in the 20s when Lenin had allowed plenty of private enterprise, as well as foreign investment and operations ("concessions"), under tight government control.From the beginning, it was intended as a temprorary compromise (Trotsky insisted on total State control being resumed ASAP, Stalin was more pragamtic)

    If you take this timeframe, and compare with the Nazis or a milder case of radical socialism, like the Fascists or their cousins in Spain and Portugal, the difference disappears.
    Yep, you are quite correct. Though what I read suggested that the only reason Lenin had to allow plenty of private enterprise was because he hadn't completely consolidated his power in the early 1920's(1922 or 1923, depending on how you see things). Remember, there were 2 communists revolutions, one in november (or october, depending on the calendar) and one in february which was also a counter-revolution because the fruits from the initial one were deemed... less than desirable according to communist ideology. And then you had the civil war which lasted until the early 1920s. So Lenin needed the money to fund his regime in order to get power. Money that only the private enterprise and capitalism could provide, and so, he courted them... only later, after he achieved his goal, to stab them in the back and nationalize all he could afford to do.

  10. #110
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    Re: Which are worse for you? Nazis or Communists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Ah, the spinning wheel of history or time. You are probably right.
    It's hard for people to understand some things, that don't directly happen to them.
    Makes them forget why we overturned monarchies and all that.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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