Would you let your son to go to camp where there were openly gay members? [W:19,1642]

Aunt Spiker said:

Ok - well - belief be damned. You cannot convince someone to 'act' gay and then 'love' one of the same gender - it doesn't work that way. People either are or they aren't. Because if that was the CASE then no one would be gay! Straight couples would not possibly raise a child and then have that child tell them they're gay.

But we have gay people raised by straight couples all the time . . . and straight kids are raised by gays, too.

(wow - I know! - this logic and junk)

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I completely understand this poster's concern. I wouldn't be concerned it would "turn my son gay." I'd be concerned it would end up a haunting experience for him if he made the wrong choice. That's a mom's job -- to protect her kids from those things that might be emotionally damaging to them. I wouldn't trust an eight- or ten-year-old with that decision.

Poll: Would you allow your son to go to camp where there were openly gay members?

As opposed to camps where their are certain members who preach non-stop antigay arguments who themselves are closet gays?

Former [[company-I-worked-for]]] day camp counselor in a conservative, suburban area where the camp had about 300 kids aged 5-12. We had maybe about 40 staff members, 5 were openly (or tellingly) gay. Four men, one woman. Going by the how many I know in the LGBT community that were camp counselors, that's a fairly average ratio.

My opinion: I think you've got to be couple of bricks short of a full load if you think that a gay man is somehow different than a straight man.

DaveFagan said:

I wouldn't want my child to think the only way you know if you are gay is if you try it and don't like it.

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Literally no one in the entire history of the human race has ever thought that. But even if they did, what's the harm in trying? No one ever suggests that a gay person having a heterosexual relationship before coming out is harmful, so why would the inverse be true?

MaggieD said:

I don't disagree. I wouldn't automatically say no, but it would give me pause. Kids experiment. Kids can get screwed up by experimenting. I'm not worried about pedophilia -- I'm worried about the natural curiosity kids have. Peer pressure is huge. Wanting to "fit in" is huge. Making good decisions is sometimes hard when we're young. And dealing appropriately with an experiment isn't always in a young kid's toolbox.

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Again, how would experimentation be bad?

MaggieD said:

I completely understand this poster's concern. I wouldn't be concerned it would "turn my son gay." I'd be concerned it would end up a haunting experience for him if he made the wrong choice. That's a mom's job -- to protect her kids from those things that might be emotionally damaging to them. I wouldn't trust an eight- or ten-year-old with that decision.

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I worry about things like: drug habits, criminal history, emotional state, common sense and reasoning amid dangerous situations, the ability to keep a group of children under control, trust - like 'do I trust this individual to save my child's life if he was in danger?' . . . and so on.

I am a hover mother often accused of being smothering and over bearing . . . 'finds my husband attractive' does not rank on my lengthy lists of concerns.

Because damn - he is a sexy beast, I tell ya

I took my daughter out of her girl scout troop because I didn't trust her leader - who was married/straight/had kids . . . because she smoked around the kids like she was a chimney and they were carbon filters. :roll: She was an idiot who obviously couldn't put aside her own selfish interests for the sake of her children and others.

Yea. Wouldnt be concerned.

brothern said:

Fo
My opinion: I think you've got to be couple of bricks short of a full load if you think that a gay man is somehow different than a straight man.

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I think you must be on crack to assume there is no difference.

Aunt Spiker said:

I worry about things like: drug habits, criminal history, emotional state, common sense and reasoning amid dangerous situations, the ability to keep a group of children under control, trust - like 'do I trust this individual to save my child's life if he was in danger?' . . . and so on.

I am a hover mother often accused of being smothering and over bearing . . . 'finds my husband attractive' does not rank on my lengthy lists of concerns.

Because damn - he is a sexy beast, I tell ya

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He told me you always said that about him.

Paschendale said:

Literally no one in the entire history of the human race has ever thought that. But even if they did, what's the harm in trying? No one ever suggests that a gay person having a heterosexual relationship before coming out is harmful, so why would the inverse be true?

Again, how would experimentation be bad?

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Depends on the age of the child.

MaggieD said:

He told me you always said that about him.

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He knows me SO WELL! That man - I tell ya!
He was so proud to have left me hickies. LOL!

I answered no, but what I really meant was "not necessarily." And then I thought about it some more and realize that probably a lot more harm has been done by closeted gay men than by openly gay men. So I figure I voted too quickly. I wouldn't be outright opposed to the idea, and would change my vote if that were possible.

Rocketman said:

I think you must be on crack to assume there is no difference.

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You're thinking about sex and gender . . . you'er not just the sum of your sexuality.

Aunt Spiker said:

You're thinking about sex and gender . . . you'er not just the sum of your sexuality.

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None the less it takes all the colors in the tray to paint the true picture.

Aunt Spiker said:

You're thinking about sex and gender . . . you'er not just the sum of your sexuality.

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Mhmm.

Rocketman said:

I think you must be on crack to assume there is no difference.

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And, actually, I might moderate that comment. The straight male counselors were worse (more troublesome?), because a few of them were too rough on the kids during sports / outside free time. One of the six years that I worked there, one counselor got fired for (accidentally) breaking a kid's nose when he punted a kickball right into the poor kid's face.

brothern said:

Mhmm.


And, actually, I might moderate that comment. The straight male counselors were worse (more troublesome?), because a few of them were too rough on the kids during sports / outside free time. One of the six years that I worked there, one counselor got fired for (accidentally) breaking a kid's nose when he punted a kickball right into the poor kid's face.

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LOL - love the stereotype. . . gay men: can they punt a kickball? Hmm - things to ponder :roll:

brothern said:

Mhmm.


And, actually, I might moderate that comment. The straight male counselors were worse (more troublesome?), because a few of them were too rough on the kids during sports / outside free time. One of the six years that I worked there, one counselor got fired for (accidentally) breaking a kid's nose when he punted a kickball right into the poor kid's face.

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What a load of crap, like he did it on purpose. Has anyone here ever raised a kid that NEVER got hurt accidently?

DaveFagan said:

I voted no and it is because of the age factor. A boy or girl 10-15 years old is very moldable. I don't think gay is an inherited trait so I must presume it is learned, even if the learning is subliminal. I wouldn't want my child to think the only way you know if you are gay is if you try it and don't like it. Put yourself back in your pubescent mindset and then answer.

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I kind if think if it's a choice, everyone hold kick the tires, so to speak. Try each side out, and have an informed choice.

Of course, we don't really choose in that way. It sent learned either.

Rocketman said:

What a load of crap, like he did it on purpose. Has anyone here ever raised a kid that NEVER got hurt accidently?

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In the last 5 years we've made 12 injury-related trips to the ER. . .all bloody. Lots of blood - it's amazing how much kids manage to bleed.

And you know - one time at my Dad's church we were goofing off on the stairs and one kid fell down and went through the drywall - busted his nose . . . just as one example.

OH! (afterthought) that does remind me of some dude we use to know when I was 10 or so - he was a lot of fun to hang around with. We'd ham it up - he'd help my dad out around the church. Everyone loved him. . . and then one day for reasons unknown to us (kids) - we were told not to ever talk to him again. I don't know what he did - but he was suddenly unwelcome and I doubt that 'being gay' was one of the concerns.

Aunt Spiker said:

In the last 5 years we've made 12 injury-related trips to the ER. . .all bloody. Lots of blood - it's amazing how much kids manage to bleed.

And you know - one time at my Dad's church we were goofing off on the stairs and one kid fell down and went through the drywall - busted his nose . . . just as one example.

OH! (afterthought) that does remind me of some dude we use to know when I was 10 or so - he was a lot of fun to hang around with. We'd ham it up - he'd help my dad out around the church. Everyone loved him. . . and then one day for reasons unknown to us (kids) - we were told not to ever talk to him again. I don't know what he did - but he was suddenly unwelcome and I doubt that 'being gay' was one of the concerns.

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When I was around 12 I climbed a crane used for lifting boats out of the water, slipped and fell throught the glass of the cab, my son at 12 was running through the house to get the phone and broke three toes on the baseboards. It is always something.

Yes, and I wouldn't associate with anyone in my personal life who votes "no".

Rocketman said:

What a load of crap, like he did it on purpose. Has anyone here ever raised a kid that NEVER got hurt accidently?

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I have no issue with parents playing rough with kids, or rough play at all, but the counselors aren't parents. All that needs to happen is for the one kid whose parents are the sue-happy nuts to break a bone or a nose and the [[company-I-worked-for]] has a lawsuit, enraged parents and a half dozen lawyers yelling about negligence. In retrospect, parents are by far the worst 'group of people' that I've ever had to work with.

Doubling back to the original point. LGBT people make up about 5% of the population. That's 1 in 20 people. Chances are that your kids already know openly gay counselors, teachers, church leaders, adult mentors and parents of their friends long before they reached the age at which they can attend proper "overnight" camps. Heck, knowing what I know from being a camp counselor, most kids know the birds and bees long before their parents every think to tell 'em (because that's what older siblings are for).

brothern said:

I have no issue with parents playing rough with kids, or rough play at all, but the counselors aren't parents. All that needs to happen is for the one kid whose parents are the sue-happy nuts to break a bone or a nose and the [[company-I-worked-for]] has a lawsuit, enraged parents and a half dozen lawyers yelling about negligence. In retrospect, parents are by far the worst 'group of people' that I've ever had to work with.

Doubling back to the original point. LGBT people make up about 5% of the population. That's 1 in 20 people. Chances are that your kids already know openly gay counselors, teachers, church leaders, adult mentors and parents of their friends long before they reached the age at which they can attend proper "overnight" camps. Heck, knowing what I know from being a camp counselor, most kids know the birds and bees long before their parents every think to tell 'em (because that's what older siblings are for).

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I agree, I had already had sex before my parents brought it up.

Rocketman said:

When I was around 12 I climbed a crane used for lifting boats out of the water, slipped and fell throught the glass of the cab, my son at 12 was running through the house to get the phone and broke three toes on the baseboards. It is always something.

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Yep - always something.

Sometimes no one even knows how it happened. When my oldest was 7 I found him sitting on the back porch stoop - bloody nose, just covered in blood. His brother was playing on the swingset as if it didn't even happen. All I did was go inside for a few minutes to shift the laundry.

No clue to this day what happened - it just did.

Heck - one day my son ended up with a giant egg sized welt on his head - no clue how that happened, either. he didn't remember hurting himself. . . and someone at the school even called cps to investigate.

It wasn't until he was 11 that we found out his pain-sensory is 1/2 as sensitive as it should be - explained *so much* - he could get hurt and not realize it at all.

Navy Pride is curious yellow, "Would you allow your son to go to camp where there were openly gay members?"

Your wording is problematic and I doubt you will find wording which is not contentious to at least some. Your hot button word is "openly" which is suggestive.

Over in Pelosi led San Francisco, "openly" gay makes for good pornography movies, right out there in the streets. Should you attend a Pelosi "leather parade", well, wear dark shades, wear a raincoat and don't take your kids!

At a camp, a retreat, a shoreline picnic, this "openly" notion is not so volatile. Couple of boys holding hands, couple of girls kissing, this is not a problem and is not the business of others. My view is what others do, while appropriate public behavior, is simply the business of none. Your circumstances could easily be reversed.

During a gay parade in Los Angeles, where gays and lesbians keep their clothes on and respect others, you and your family would be the oddballs. I might ask those of the gay and lesbian community, "Would you take your children to an event where there are openly straight people?" I have a hunch you and your family would be welcomed, especially your children who would delight in this L.A. colorful parade which is televised, and never any law enforcement problems.

A more challenging reversal for you, Navy Pride, is naked truth. Three of us in our small family are nudists. We love attending nudist resorts, beaches and planned activities, lots of friendship and fun! Challenge for you is this nudist lifestyle is popular with all ages of people, from grandma to granddaughter. This is adults and children, all naked and enjoying fun. There are some mixed in who wear clothes or partial clothing. None really care. Would you take your kids to a camp where families are openly nude?

Reminds me of our girl. She makes a friend at a resort, a young girl like herself. Her new friend is shy and wearing clothes, well, a swimsuit. Our girl is nude. Our daughter takes her friend's hand, pulls her friend into a locker room. Not long, out those two come, both nude, and they jump right into a swimming pool with lots of other nude people. Had to drag both out of this pool after a couple of hours; they looked like wrinkled up prunes hollering, "Marco", "Polo" followed by grins and giggles.

Our girl made a new friend for life, her new friend never wore clothes again at this resort and enjoyed loads of fun!

Navy Pride, is being straight or gay, being clothed or nude, is this a measure of a person's worth? Of course not. What you are working at is imposing Christian moral values upon others which is wrong headed. Last time Christians got all crazy about their moral values, they slaughtered twenty-five-million of my peoples, men, women and children alike.

Moral values are personal, not public. Your moral values are not my business, nor are moral values of others your business.

Okpulot Taha - Choctaw Nation

Wow 26-4 that is pretty decisive I wonder if all you lefties actually had to make that decision what you would do.