View Poll Results: Are spy/assassinatin drones morally acceptable?

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  • Yes

    29 33.72%
  • No

    34 39.53%
  • Yes, with explanation

    20 23.26%
  • No or undecided with explanation

    3 3.49%
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Thread: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

  1. #201
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    Boo Radley's Avatar
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yeah, you will notice that nowhere in there does it say "bombing". The vast majority of drones are used for collections, not kinetic targeting. And the reason I throw in pilots is because the use of planes for domestic collection is already widespread. But now that we are talking about moving from expensive planes and pilots to relatively cheaper drones who perform the same function, you seem to feel that this is a problem.
    I'm more worried about the topic of the thread.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #202
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm more worried about the topic of the thread.
    Is that your way of implicitly admitting that you jumped the gun by talking about domestic bombing?

  3. #203
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Is that your way of implicitly admitting that you jumped the gun by talking about domestic bombing?
    I may have jumped the gun, true that. But being off topic does sometimes throw a fellow.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #204
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    3% hit rate???!!! I disbelieve. Please provide a link.
    Pardon me, I was quoting the state from memory. I can't remember where I originally read it, so here is a figure from a study conducted by Stanford and NYU.

    "[P]ublicly available evidence that the strikes have made the US safer overall is ambiguous at best. The strikes have certainly killed alleged combatants and disrupted armed actor networks. However, serious concerns about the efficacy and counter-productive nature of drone strikes have been raised. The number of “high-level” targets killed as a percentage of total casualties is extremely low—estimated at just 2%."

    So, the hit rate of high level targets is actually lower. The point is that, as awful as Bush's foreign policy was, Obama's is actually worst - he is more of a warmonger than Bush ever was. Noam Chomsky, of all people, agrees with me.

    He bombed Yemen and lied about it! And, he has drug us into even more wars and foreign occupations than Bush ever did (with plans to extend these ‘special operations forces’ into 60 to 75 more countries).

    "Our government made a series of hasty decisions, in a poorly planned haphazard approach; too often we set those principles aside as luxuries we could no longer afford. Our government made decisions based on fear rather than foresight. The decisions that were made over the last eight years established an ad hoc legal approach for 'fighting terrorism' that was neither effective nor sustainable."– Barack Obama from a 2009 speech made in the Federal Archives.

    In that same speech, literally sentences later, he proclaims new provisions he has added to the patriot act. Among these new provisions was something called “Prolonged Detention”, which is, essentially, preventative incarceration. No trial, no charges, no conviction, and no sentencing will be necessary to hold U.S. citizens. No bail will be posted and there is no limit to how long or for what reason you may be held. We expected this from Bush, but even he only applied this reasoning to non-citizens, outside of U.S. borders. Even he did not go this far.

    He, like Bush, signed on to warrantless wiretapping, renditioning, the patriot act, prison abuse, detention without trial, violations of Habeus Corpus, and invasive airport security measures. He had this to say before not only extending the patriot act in length, but also breadth: "It's an important tool for us to continue dealing with an ongoing terrorist threat."

    And we actually waste time voting for these thugs.
    If men are not angels, then who shall run the government?

  5. #205
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    That works well for citizens that are within reach of the FBI. What about citizens in hostile regions on foreign soil?
    Well since they ain't here, it doesn't seem like it's that much of a concern. Let them bitch in a cave if that's what they want to do.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #206
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    That's what I'm thinking about. The FBI is a strictly domestic agency. If a US citizen is (a terrorist and) in a foreign country, what are we supposed to do? Just say we're stuck, roll over, and give up?
    What the f is some jackass in a foreign country going to do? Roll over and give up? No, but if he's not a threat then he's not a threat.

    "OMG...that guy over there said anti-American things"
    "Get him!"
    "But he's over there"
    "Quick, use the drone cause that guy way over there is apparently a threat even though he has no means to act out his crazy philosophy and honestly isn't much of a threat to us or our safety!"

    Can't ignore the constitution just because it's convenient.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #207
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    The number of “high-level” targets killed as a percentage of total casualties is extremely low—estimated at just 2%."
    What qualifies as a "high level target", the top 2% of bad guys?

  8. #208
    global liberation

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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    What the f is some jackass in a foreign country going to do? Roll over and give up? No, but if he's not a threat then he's not a threat.

    "OMG...that guy over there said anti-American things"
    "Get him!"
    "But he's over there"
    "Quick, use the drone cause that guy way over there is apparently a threat even though he has no means to act out his crazy philosophy and honestly isn't much of a threat to us or our safety!"

    Can't ignore the constitution just because it's convenient.
    You think drone strikes are conducted based on someone making anti-American comments? We'd be losing forum members left and right.

  9. #209
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    You think drone strikes are conducted based on someone making anti-American comments?
    I think that they can be conducted for rather flimsy reasons. We went to war on lies and propaganda, is it not then reasonable to assume that we can use our drone planes on similar conditions?

    American citizens are American citizens, regardless of where they are at. You may not assassinate them through any means less the pose an immediate risk to you or you obtain a letter of reprisal from Congress.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #210
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I think that they can be conducted for rather flimsy reasons.
    Citation?

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