View Poll Results: Are spy/assassinatin drones morally acceptable?

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  • Yes

    29 33.72%
  • No

    34 39.53%
  • Yes, with explanation

    20 23.26%
  • No or undecided with explanation

    3 3.49%
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Thread: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

  1. #151
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    .... although wait until Iran uses them to assassinate one of their enemies, maybe an Iranian citizen, on US soil.
    *Bangs Head On Desk* A drone is a robotic PLANE it would be no different than if Iran somehow managed to toss one of their Tomcats across the US border and bombed a street corner. It isn't suddenly novel because they used a drone, what was novel was that you bombed the United ****ing States.

  2. #152
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    *Bangs Head On Desk* A drone is a robotic PLANE it would be no different than if Iran somehow managed to toss one of their Tomcats across the US border and bombed a street corner. It isn't suddenly novel because they used a drone, what was novel was that you bombed the United ****ing States.
    *Bangs Head on Desk* --- I know what I drone is.... I am illustrating that the US is violating airspace of other countries in carrying out this stuff. We aren't even thinking about that (as so wonderfully portrayed by your post as you aren't making that connection.) I am asking you to think about the appropriateness of this by having you think about being on the receiving end.

    To make my point even clearer: I think we have no more (or less, I suppose) right to make drone strikes in non-combative countries abroad as a non-combative country has to make a drone strike in the US.

  3. #153
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Well, I voted no but on closer reflection should have abstained. Assassinations by drone or otherwise are morally unacceptable. Due process is crucial.

    But drones for spying? I can't say that that's of the same magnitude whatsoever. You cannot equate the two.

  4. #154
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    *Bangs Head on Desk* --- I know what I drone is.... I am illustrating that the US is violating airspace of other countries in carrying out this stuff. We aren't even thinking about that (as so wonderfully portrayed by your post as you aren't making that connection.) I am asking you to think about the appropriateness of this by having you think about being on the receiving end.

    To make my point even clearer: I think we have no more (or less, I suppose) right to make drone strikes in non-combative countries abroad as a non-combative country has to make a drone strike in the US.
    Then why on earth would it be setting a precedent for Iran to bomb someone in the United States? Drones are pretty damn well late to the game in terms of a weapons system thats been launched across a foreign border without a declaration of war. Moreover if your greatest moral concern is that the airspace and sovereignty of Pakistan is being violated I think we're on the heavy side of the scales on that one. The absurd levels and reaches of relativism are never more apparent than when they creep into foreign policy.

    "What right do we have to strike them? How would WE feel if they bombed us?" The them could be the Taliban, Iran, AQ, Syria, it never matters for the relativist. Because there is nothing uniquely positive about the United States, there is no interest in seeing democratic hegemony expanded at the expense of autocracy and radicalism (after all, is that really fair?), there is no side worth staking a claim to because staking a claim is inherently lacking in equity.

    For the rest of us, we pick a side, we pick the US and democratic hegemony, and we're willing to bomb people who oppose and inhibit that.

  5. #155
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Well, I voted no but on closer reflection should have abstained. Assassinations by drone or otherwise are morally unacceptable. Due process is crucial.
    ......You know killing members of threat groups is not assasination? That's just what lazy people in the media call it.

  6. #156
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ......You know killing members of threat groups is not assasination? That's just what lazy people in the media call it.
    Threat groups? Geez, talk about newspeak.

    There used to be something in this country called due process. Thanks to people like you, who buy into the hallow rationalizations of Bush and Obama, due process is a fading concept. You sicken me.

  7. #157
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    when those some are uniform, come from both sides of the political aisle, and all have the access to know, yeah, in the absence of competing evidence, I tend to take their statements at face value.

    But you aren't going to distract the thread.

    So if a terrorist puts one person in a car bomb with him, and drives that car bomb at a crowd of 100 people, you would say that we should not engage the car and save the 100? Because the terrorist is not representing a nation, and therefore the non-combatants next to him cannot be moral collateral damage?
    That's you mistake, and one you make this often. Just someone saying it, no matter who, is not objective measurable evidence.

    And what you use as an example is not what we're talking about. It's off point.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #158
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    The drone program is making the U.S. a more hated country around the world. The result will be more terrorist activity aimed at the U.S. Everytime an innocent civilian gets killed, members of that persons family and friends and others in the community develop a strong dislike of the USA. This is where more terrorist recruits will come from.

    Right now it is easy to be for drone strikes. When 20 to 30 countries have the capability and American's become targets around the world it will be too late.

    Now is when America is showing the world how to use these weapons. In the not to distant future the President, and other government leaders will not be able to leave continental US without some sort of air defense.

    By pressing the advantage now, you sow the seeds for years of strife.
    Time flies like an arrow; fruitflies like a banana. - Groucho

  9. #159
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by rjay View Post
    The drone program is making the U.S. a more hated country around the world. The result will be more terrorist activity aimed at the U.S. Everytime an innocent civilian gets killed, members of that persons family and friends and others in the community develop a strong dislike of the USA. This is where more terrorist recruits will come from.

    Right now it is easy to be for drone strikes. When 20 to 30 countries have the capability and American's become targets around the world it will be too late.

    Now is when America is showing the world how to use these weapons. In the not to distant future the President, and other government leaders will not be able to leave continental US without some sort of air defense.

    By pressing the advantage now, you sow the seeds for years of strife.
    A sound practical analysis. Too bad politicians never think farther ahead than their next election.

  10. #160
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Then why on earth would it be setting a precedent for Iran to bomb someone in the United States? Drones are pretty damn well late to the game in terms of a weapons system thats been launched across a foreign border without a declaration of war. Moreover if your greatest moral concern is that the airspace and sovereignty of Pakistan is being violated I think we're on the heavy side of the scales on that one. The absurd levels and reaches of relativism are never more apparent than when they creep into foreign policy.

    "What right do we have to strike them? How would WE feel if they bombed us?" The them could be the Taliban, Iran, AQ, Syria, it never matters for the relativist. Because there is nothing uniquely positive about the United States, there is no interest in seeing democratic hegemony expanded at the expense of autocracy and radicalism (after all, is that really fair?), there is no side worth staking a claim to because staking a claim is inherently lacking in equity.

    For the rest of us, we pick a side, we pick the US and democratic hegemony, and we're willing to bomb people who oppose and inhibit that.
    I did not intend my violation of airspace comment (attacking someone on another country's soil without permission) to trump the morality of killing a US citizen without due process; I was merely expanding the issue. I believe both are abhorrent.

    I also do not believe US exceptionalism includes the idea that we can do whatever the hell we want in another country then turn around and think another country acting the same is declaring war on us. We are but citizens of this world; we have to behave like citizens...Although we are free to protect our interests; we do not have absolute impunity for the ways we might do that.

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