View Poll Results: Are spy/assassinatin drones morally acceptable?

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  • Yes

    29 33.72%
  • No

    34 39.53%
  • Yes, with explanation

    20 23.26%
  • No or undecided with explanation

    3 3.49%
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Thread: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

  1. #141
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Your question is a false question and not on point.
    The question is not one for two reasons:

    1. You have stated that any strike in which any non-combatant is killed is immoral and "not surgical enough" and
    2. US Decision makers face these kinds of situations. You don't get to just wish them away because they are inconvenient to you.

    I've noted that for you already. We don't have to be there. Those who attacked us could not have been stopped by drone strikes.
    Because we didn't have drone strikes available in the 1990's, yes. However, those who are planning to attack us or others in the future certainly can be stopped by drone strikes.
    Last edited by cpwill; 02-08-13 at 12:13 AM.

  2. #142
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    However, it is nice to see that my predictions about how the left would switch from it's "Iraq War Bad Afghan War Good" fakery to "Afghan War Bad" have been fulfilled. It was always a poor fig leaf.

  3. #143
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The question is not one for two reasons:

    1. You have stated that any strike in which any non-combatant is killed is immoral and "not surgical enough" and
    2. US Decision makers face these kinds of situations. You don't get to just wish them away because they are inconvenient to you.



    Because we didn't have drone strikes available in the 1990's, yes. However, those who are planning to attack us or others in the future certainly can be stopped by drone strikes.
    Not surgical enough for the situation we're talking about.

    And no, because it wouldn't have stopped people who weren't there.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #144
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    However, it is nice to see that my predictions about how the left would switch from it's "Iraq War Bad Afghan War Good" fakery to "Afghan War Bad" have been fulfilled. It was always a poor fig leaf.

    First, I'm not "the left." Second, it's not about good or bad war, but methodology. There are concerns there, much more than was ever real in Iraq, but not something bet handled by drone strikes. Nor nation building a good idea.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #145
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not surgical enough for the situation we're talking about.
    Okedoke, Boo, when would you accept non-combatant deaths?

    And no, because it wouldn't have stopped people who weren't there.
    Which is why you make sure that the "there" is "where the people who are planning and enabling attacks are". Do you think we are randomly bombing places?

  6. #146
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Okedoke, Boo, when would you accept non-combatant deaths?



    Which is why you make sure that the "there" is "where the people who are planning and enabling attacks are". Do you think we are randomly bombing places?
    Nation against nation, where one nation is against another nation.

    And as the there is everywhere, not really possible.

    And I do think that like the information we got from al Libi under torture, and acted on, we very well could often THINK we know something we really didn't. It isn't like we've never been wrong.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #147
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nation against nation, where one nation is against another nation.
    Interesting. So if a terrorist puts one person in a car bomb with him, and drives that car bomb at a crowd of 100 people, you would say that we should not engage the car and save the 100? Because the terrorist is not representing a nation?

    Driving on, how in the world does a someone working on behalf of a nation vice a non-nation force alter the math of relative non-combatant casualties, relative military advantage gained, or the worth of the individuals around them? My children live in a house with a uniformed military member - does this mean that their lives are somehow worth less than your childrens' and are that they are therefore somehow "less concombatant"?

    And as the there is everywhere, not really possible.
    Not really. The "there" is wherever these individuals happen to be. That's why they have Pattern of Life analysis done on them and their associated facilities. But, again, you don't know that, because you don't know what you are talking about.

    And I do think that like the information we got from al Libi under torture, and acted on, we very well could often THINK we know something we really didn't. It isn't like we've never been wrong.
    No one is talking about enhanced interrogation in this thread, however, multiple CIA chiefs from both Democrat and Republican administrations have attested to its' value and the lives saved. But you are right, it's a judgement call.

  8. #148
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Interesting. So if a terrorist puts one person in a car bomb with him, and drives that car bomb at a crowd of 100 people, you would say that we should not engage the car and save the 100? Because the terrorist is not representing a nation?

    Driving on, how in the world does a someone working on behalf of a nation vice a non-nation force alter the math of relative non-combatant casualties, relative military advantage gained, or the worth of the individuals around them? My children live in a house with a uniformed military member - does this mean that their lives are somehow worth less than your childrens' and are that they are therefore somehow "less concombatant"?



    Not really. The "there" is wherever these individuals happen to be. That's why they have Pattern of Life analysis done on them and their associated facilities. But, again, you don't know that, because you don't know what you are talking about.



    No one is talking about enhanced interrogation in this thread, however, multiple CIA chiefs from both Democrat and Republican administrations have attested to its' value and the lives saved. But you are right, it's a judgement call.
    That's not at all what I said. And no, there has been no proof torture has saved lives. You're too easily impressed by what SOME SAY.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #149
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That's not at all what I said. And no, there has been no proof torture has saved lives. You're too easily impressed by what SOME SAY.
    when those some are uniform, come from both sides of the political aisle, and all have the access to know, yeah, in the absence of competing evidence, I tend to take their statements at face value.

    But you aren't going to distract the thread.

    So if a terrorist puts one person in a car bomb with him, and drives that car bomb at a crowd of 100 people, you would say that we should not engage the car and save the 100? Because the terrorist is not representing a nation, and therefore the non-combatants next to him cannot be moral collateral damage?

  10. #150
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    Re: Assassination Drones are OK or morally questionable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Das Sozialist View Post
    In my opinion, they're acceptable if used to defend your country. I don't agree with using them in countries we have no business being in (i.e. Yemen, Pakistan, etc.) but I'm fine with them being used in wars we're fighting.
    .... although wait until Iran uses them to assassinate one of their enemies, maybe an Iranian citizen, on US soil.

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