View Poll Results: Should the Government be in the Marriage Business?

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  • Yes, we need standards and structure or society will fall

    13 25.00%
  • No, I know what's best for me. Government should serve as a register only

    39 75.00%
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Thread: Should The Government Be In The Marriage Business?

  1. #71
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    Re: Should The Government Be In The Marriage Business?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Which federal law specifically?
    Thanks for catching that. I had to research that only to find that while the Supremacy Clause allows the Supreme Court to rule on state laws regarding marriage, there are no specific federal laws (at least none that ten minutes of research could uncover). Thus, it would appear, the present day fuss over the matter.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 02-03-13 at 01:57 PM.

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    Re: Should The Government Be In The Marriage Business?

    There are 'religions' that subjugate mostly women and young boys that roll up lots of stuff with what they call marriage. It's still done in Northern Arizona, e.g. 'married' at 14 or younger. If you let private organizations define marriage, women and boys will have no escape. When they escape, which is difficult, their 'husbands' will be able to 'rescue' them if there are no rules (laws) about what marriage is. Just keep the law simple. It can be just two adults in a legal arrangement. Why leave people unprotected? Why make it complicated?

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    Re: Should The Government Be In The Marriage Business?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    (don't think I've forgotten about that agenda of yours, come, come, I've let you have a spin, your turn, gonna fess up?)
    I think this is something like the third time you've alluded to a hidden agenda of mine. I have no idea what you're talking about.

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    Re: Should The Government Be In The Marriage Business?

    The government has to be involved in the contract enforcement business, there is no logical alternative. The gov't should not be involved in the social engineering business, our federal income tax code is now 90% not about taxing income from all sources, the clear intent of the 16th amendmant, but about how (and upon who) that income was later spent using thousands of exemptions, deductions, credits, creative accounting methods, subsidies and exclusions. Being married is contract about joint property, survivorship and implied power of attorney in "contract sanctioned" personal relationships. Limitations on the gender and number of partners are being argued, but general agreement exists on the exclusivity of the marriage contract (no bigamy). To deny the spouse (or spouses) of any LTR to be denied SS/joint property survivorship benefits or inclusion on a "familiy" medical plan is wrong. Using gov't fiat to define the "morality" or "the suitability" of any adult partner (or partners) is outlawed for business contracts yet the very basis for marriage contracts.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Should The Government Be In The Marriage Business?

    Marriage throughout European and American history has for the most part been a chruch affair. Churches performed and kept records of who was married. It wasn’t until the middle 1800’s that some states started to keep records on who was married and if memory serves me right, Kentucky around 1916 became the last state to keep records on marriage.

    If it weren’t for the passage of the income tax amendment and the federal government starting to use the tax code to enforce, no, not enforce but to use the tax code to achieve certain personal behavior among it citizens, this discussion would be for the most part moot. One can draw up a will and leave anything to anyone regardless of being married or not. It is the tax advantages be it income, inheritance and other benefits since derived since the passage of the 16th amendment that has made who can or can’t be married into an divisive issue.

    Personally, I see no problem with letting the church’s and religion if that is what you want to call it to maintain their place in history and marriage. All other marriages outside the church, you can call them civil unions for tax and benefit resolution and let’s move on.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Should The Government Be In The Marriage Business?

    Quote Originally Posted by eellis285 View Post
    i think this is rediculous the problem is government shouldn't even know if you are or aren't married that should be between you god (or your god) and your spouse i am very opposed to homosexuality as an act not to the people as we are supposed to love the sinner and hate the sin but i am not going to vote for gay marriage to be outlawed because i don't want the gov. in anyones business
    Yet, when a marriage is dissolved, and one party or both parties are aggrieved, over property or custody of children, the government is brought in to settle and then enforce the decision when they can't themselves. It then behooves the government to have laws and a framework in place to facilitate that. Why should a judge have to unknot the mess two people have made of their partnership and the custody and support of their progeny without having some sort of structure available to establish who and when the union "incorporated"? (I use "available" because lots of people don't partake of marriage these days.) Marriage protects the rights of the couple as well as those of the children.

    This structure should be extended to SS couples as well for the same purpose. No couple, no matter their orientation, is immune from legal issues after the dissolution.

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    Re: Should The Government Be In The Marriage Business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Marriage throughout European and American history has for the most part been a chruch affair. Churches performed and kept records of who was married. It wasn’t until the middle 1800’s that some states started to keep records on who was married and if memory serves me right, Kentucky around 1916 became the last state to keep records on marriage.

    If it weren’t for the passage of the income tax amendment and the federal government starting to use the tax code to enforce, no, not enforce but to use the tax code to achieve certain personal behavior among it citizens, this discussion would be for the most part moot. One can draw up a will and leave anything to anyone regardless of being married or not. It is the tax advantages be it income, inheritance and other benefits since derived since the passage of the 16th amendment that has made who can or can’t be married into an divisive issue.

    Personally, I see no problem with letting the church’s and religion if that is what you want to call it to maintain their place in history and marriage. All other marriages outside the church, you can call them civil unions for tax and benefit resolution and let’s move on.
    (bold mine)

    I feel it is necessary, every now and again, to remind certain people that the above is just a fantasy and will never, ever happen.

    Carry on.

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    Re: Should The Government Be In The Marriage Business?

    yes for any children that might be involved.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  9. #79
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    Re: Should The Government Be In The Marriage Business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    (bold mine)

    I feel it is necessary, every now and again, to remind certain people that the above is just a fantasy and will never, ever happen.

    Carry on.
    Perhaps, but I hear more and more talk about as time goes by. This idea was not originally mine. But it does make sense. ttwtt is right about our tax code. It is not just to bring in revenue to the fed anymore, it is to encourage behavior. We will reward you if you buy a house or get married. We will subsidize you business, but if you smoke we will increase the taxes on tobacco ten fold if not twenty. From what I hear, there has been a couple of states where civil unions has been proposed, it hasn't gone very far, but the first step is the proposal and time will tell whether civil unions catches on or not.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Should The Government Be In The Marriage Business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Perhaps, but I hear more and more talk about as time goes by. This idea was not originally mine. But it does make sense. ttwtt is right about our tax code. It is not just to bring in revenue to the fed anymore, it is to encourage behavior. We will reward you if you buy a house or get married. We will subsidize you business, but if you smoke we will increase the taxes on tobacco ten fold if not twenty. From what I hear, there has been a couple of states where civil unions has been proposed, it hasn't gone very far, but the first step is the proposal and time will tell whether civil unions catches on or not.
    I understand, but the uphill battle you face is that once you bring that proposal to the courts or to legislation, you're actually going to have to argue why a fairly large percentage of the nation is now going to have to give up their marriages in favor of "civil unions" instead, and vague assertions of freedom ain't gonna cut it.

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