View Poll Results: Do you agree or disagree with dumping the constitution

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    4 6.67%
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Thread: Should we get rid of the constitution

  1. #81
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I always have been, Cap. Just like my father and grandfather were at the end of their lives.
    Well, I might disagree with just about everything you agree with but for what it's worth, as far as I'm concerned, you're welcome here in the good ol' USA. There's room here for all kinds of ideas. You are free, as far as I'm concerned, to think and believe what you want to think and believe. Even though, you don't appear to want to offer the same courtesy to others.

    You're still okay in my book.

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  2. #82
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    I applaud the ideas and proposals, even if I do not agree with some..
    Our government has to do some explaining with this spying business - if true - this is something that must be done very carefully - privacy is not my gig..
    Repeal ?
    Repeal nothing...even the 2nd...so tempting to do this...
    A lot of it started in the McCarthy era and has gone on ever since. I get the fact those charged with the duty of protecting us need to know stuff but I don't think once its been determined someone who might have been the target of a classified investigation poses no security threat, they have a right to know, review the data collected and decide whether or not they want it to remain on file with the government accessible to anyone requesting it under FOIA or have it destroyed.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  3. #83
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Imagine if we were to legislate some kind of law or constitutional change that dictated the unchangeable path of American citizens 200 hundred years from now. We would be dictating to them how they should live based on conditions today. Emphasis on the word "dictate." Just throw the word "freedom" out the window.

    As a previous poster stated there are measures in place to change the constitution. It is a difficult and lengthy procedure and rightfully so. But nothing is etched in stone. Americans should be free to navigate their own well-being and not tethered to some archaic ruling of centuries gone by. This is as true today as it was when the constitution was written.

    The constitution should never be dismissed entirely, in my opinion. I am one of those who voted "no" in the poll. But a free America should be able to make changes as the generations see fit. We should not be enslaved to the will of past generations.
    And that's exactly what the Amendment process is for. If a change to the Constitution is really necessary, then there will be enough public support for an Amendment to implement that change. If there isn't enough support to get an Amendment passed, then the change really wasn't necessary, and the Constitution stands as written.

    Not being able to raise enough public support for an Amendment is no excuse for disobeying the Constitution. Rather, it is proof that the Constitution needs to be obeyed as it is.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  4. #84
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I disagree with getting rid of the constitution. The constitution is about limiting gov authority. Obama hates it for that reason and says it only tells gov what it can't do not what it can do.


    "The Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society…. To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution … that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can’t do to you. Says what the Federal government can’t do to you, but doesn’t say what the Federal government or State government must do on your behalf, and that hasn’t shifted, and one of the, I think, tragedies of the civil rights movement was, um, because the civil rights movement became so court-focused I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change…. I’m not optimistic about bringing about major redistributive change through courts… The Constitution reflected an enormous blind spot in this culture that carries on until this day … The Framers had that same blind spot … the fundamental flaw of this country. "

    —————
    Should we get rid of the constitution-madison-jpg
    —————
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  5. #85
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Imagine if we were to legislate some kind of law or constitutional change that dictated the unchangeable path of American citizens 200 hundred years from now. We would be dictating to them how they should live based on conditions today. Emphasis on the word "dictate." Just throw the word "freedom" out the window.

    As a previous poster stated there are measures in place to change the constitution. It is a difficult and lengthy procedure and rightfully so. But nothing is etched in stone. Americans should be free to navigate their own well-being and not tethered to some archaic ruling of centuries gone by. This is as true today as it was when the constitution was written.

    The constitution should never be dismissed entirely, in my opinion. I am one of those who voted "no" in the poll. But a free America should be able to make changes as the generations see fit. We should not be enslaved to the will of past generations.
    I fear that you have a different definition of what "freedom" means. From your posts freedom is limited not by actions by government under a Constitution and due process, but by what would be called majority rule. From your posts I get that a person can have as much "freedom" as he could want but only if it is what the majority would want to do. This is called Tribalism and there is no freedom in it. The main basis in Tribalism is "Any thing that is not Forbidden is Mandatory."

    Members of both political parties want to dictate what should be done whether it is prohibiting states from having SSM or what type of light bulbs the citizens should be using in their homes. While those laws would be on the books, future Congresses can change laws. The point is not dictating what people should have in 200 years but what the government should be "dictating" NOW.

    The idea of limited government is that there are areas that the government should not go into. Our Constitution was written in a way that prohibited it from being a vehicle of mob rule. Our founders feared rule by majority for good reason and since then this has not changed. They made the Constitution with the idea of separation of powers of the three branches, which halts and slows down any popular movement; the enumerated powers listed, which limits the damage that a government can do to a given minority and for only for those things that are necessary; the prohibited actions of the Federal Government, so that, the government cannot play favorites for the politically well connected and again to protect a minority; and also the prohibitions of what the States can do and what powers the States retain under the Constitution, which allows us to have a nation but one that has many different sorts of peoples in different areas with different needs in government instead of a one size fits all government.

    From your posts it seems that you do not agree with the idea of a Constitution at all. Again a constitution sets limits and you seem to want a government to have no limit that a majority would approve of and in this there is no middle ground between our two points of view. Your do state that it should not be dismissed entirely however, what good is a constitution that is not upheld on the whole or mainly. Freedom can survive minor deviances on occasion since they will be readdressed in time. What freedom cannot survive is wholesale disregard to the bounds on what is allowable under a constitution and such changes that you want must be done under due and through consideration and amendment process.

    That is as long as you are arguing from a point of freedom and not just from a point of mob rule.
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  6. #86
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Amendments, I'm okay with. A new Constitutional Convention scares me especially in the current political culture that is so divided and filled with animosity toward fellow Americans of opposing parties.
    I think we have departed so far from the Constitution that the only way we can get back to a more limited government is to have a Constitutional Convention. The main danger is that if one is called that politicians would be the ones running it and not people who are intrested in a better government and more to the point those who want to limit government power.
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  7. #87
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    And that's exactly what the Amendment process is for. If a change to the Constitution is really necessary, then there will be enough public support for an Amendment to implement that change. If there isn't enough support to get an Amendment passed, then the change really wasn't necessary, and the Constitution stands as written.

    Not being able to raise enough public support for an Amendment is no excuse for disobeying the Constitution. Rather, it is proof that the Constitution needs to be obeyed as it is.
    That's what some in Washington are hoping for I believe. 90 plus percent of America is behind universal background checks at every turn when it comes to gun transactions. That, by your definition, might be just the means needed to make that happen.

    Not sure it would apply to the constitution as I do not recall the constitution dictating how we go about gun commerce. If, however, it is determined that such accountability towards guns infringes upon the right to bear arms, 90 plus percent of Americans wanting universal background checks certainly packs enough clout to amend it.

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  8. #88
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    That's what some in Washington are hoping for I believe. 90 plus percent of America is behind universal background checks at every turn when it comes to gun transactions. That, by your definition, might be just the means needed to make that happen.

    Not sure it would apply to the constitution as I do not recall the constitution dictating how we go about gun commerce. If, however, it is determined that such accountability towards guns infringes upon the right to bear arms, 90 plus percent of Americans wanting universal background checks certainly packs enough clout to amend it.
    Jared Loughner, the Tucson shooter, passed a background check and got his weapon legally. That tells me that a "universal background check" is essentially meaningless until such time as we defeat the mental health lobby and overturn the patient privacy laws. I'm not sure that such an uphill battle is worth it.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

  9. #89
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    I disagree with dumping, period. You don't like your constitution - recycle it!
    (I am from the Evergreen State, we are super evironmentally conscious here).

  10. #90
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    *sigh* The federal government already ignores the Constitution a lot of times. I think that's a big part of our problems.
    I think you nailed it, in some ways, we pretend to have a need to follow the Constitution to the letter, in other cases, it is completely ignored.

    In any case, I think I problem is not so much with the Constitution but with the actual operation of the federal government. There is some democratic relationship with certain voting blocs, like old people on Social Security and Medicare, but beyond that, we are government by the people who fund political campaigns and lobbying efforts. If you publically funded elections, I believe that Congress critters could make decisions in the interests of the nation rather than their benefactors. Everything else necessary would have to begin here.

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