View Poll Results: Do you agree or disagree with dumping the constitution

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    4 6.67%
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Thread: Should we get rid of the constitution

  1. #21
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Since our form of government is still considered an experiment, I think many of us believe we're headed down the wrong path . . . and our Constitution, instead of working for us, works just the opposite.

    "The last official act of every government is to loot the treasury." Are we there yet?
    That is a effect of government working around the Constitution rather than within the bounds created by it.

  2. #22
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    The Constitution has within it provisions for modification to adjust with the times. I think it could use a couple of amendments:

    1. Give the POTUS the line item veto however allow line item expenditures to be overturn by the same number of votes the initial
    bill passed by, still keeping the budget as congress' baby.
    Veto overrides require more votes, for good reason. The POTUS should NEVER be given that much power. If a budget passed by 51%, and the president is of the majority party, then any "compromise" items, added by the minority party, will be removed making the budget a mere formality.

    2. Eliminate the Electoral College.
    That makes small (by population) states totally irrelevent in presidential elections. A better solution is to assign electors proportionately as two states now do.

    3. Ban corporate and union campaign donations..
    That bans political speech, encouraging PACs totally outside any financial disclosure provisions to have even more power than they now do. It also goes against the taxation without representation principle.

    4. Limit super-pack contributions to the same amount and rules regulating the campaign..
    Same objections as to #3, although adding disclosure of contributions would be a plus.

    5. Ban lobbyists from donating to campaigns..
    Same as #4.

    6. Repeal the 17th Amendment..
    Good idea!

    7. Standardize all ballots nationally..
    Impossible, since local offices and ballot initiatives are included. I would mandate no more "early voting" though.

    8. Grant every citizen with one of those new "real ID" driver's licenses a passport, since the same information is required at application..
    Good idea, but only with POSITIVE proof of the required supporting documentation.

    9. Any American citizen spied on by the government upon the conclusion of the investigation must be notified at the initiative of the government, given the data collected on him and given the option of having that data destroyed and never accessible by the public under the FOIA under an expanded right to privacy.

    Just a few...
    Unenforcable but good idea.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #23
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Liberal controlled governments succeed when they alone get to pick the winners and losers in society, without any constraints based on fairness or decency. That is why they hate the Constitution so much.

  4. #24
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    We shouldn't dump the Constitution but I've always thought that we ought to keep it up to date through a system better than amending it. Basically, amendments today are almost impossible to achieve so no one bothers. That leaves the Constitution full of language and ideas that simply are not applicable today, it forces the Supreme Court into the position of deciding how a document written 237 years ago applies to the modern world when, in reality, it probably doesn't. However, the Supreme Court doesn't have the ability to simply say "this no longer applies", they have to keep hitting it with a hammer until it is made to apply, even if the founding fathers would have had no clue.

    We're getting to the point where some parts of the Constitution are just absurdly abused.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  5. #25
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    We shouldn't dump the Constitution but I've always thought that we ought to keep it up to date through a system better than amending it. Basically, amendments today are almost impossible to achieve so no one bothers. That leaves the Constitution full of language and ideas that simply are not applicable today, it forces the Supreme Court into the position of deciding how a document written 237 years ago applies to the modern world when, in reality, it probably doesn't. However, the Supreme Court doesn't have the ability to simply say "this no longer applies", they have to keep hitting it with a hammer until it is made to apply, even if the founding fathers would have had no clue.

    We're getting to the point where some parts of the Constitution are just absurdly abused.
    Care to expound on that?

  6. #26
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    The Constitution has within it provisions for modification to adjust with the times. I think it could use a couple of amendments:

    1. Give the POTUS the line item veto however allow line item expenditures to be overturn by the same number of votes the initial bill passed by, still keeping the budget as congress' baby.
    I agree with what ttwtt said here.

    2. Eliminate the Electoral College.
    I dislike this idea. It would lead to small states having almost no impact on the election. I could support proportional giving of electoral votes, or electoral votes given on congressional district, but only after we have some nonpartisan manner of redistricting.

    3. Ban corporate and union campaign donations.
    I could agree with this.

    4. Limit super-pack contributions to the same amount and rules regulating the campaign.
    Also this.
    5. Ban lobbyists from donating to campaigns.
    And this.

    6. Repeal the 17th Amendment.
    I can't agree with this, until we have some nonpartisan way of redistricting. Gerrymandering would control the House and the Senate.

    7. Standardize all ballots nationally.
    I don't see a need for this.

    8. Grant every citizen with one of those new "real ID" driver's licenses a passport, since the same information is required at application.
    I'd be okay with this.

    9. Any American citizen spied on by the government upon the conclusion of the investigation must be notified at the initiative of the government, given the data collected on him and given the option of having that data destroyed and never accessible by the public under the FOIA under an expanded right to privacy.


    Just a few...
    I'm not sure how enforceable that would be.
    There should be Instant Runoff Voting

  7. #27
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I am curious as to who in here agrees with this guy.

    "AS the nation teeters at the edge of fiscal chaos, observers are reaching the conclusion that the American system of government is broken. But almost no one blames the culprit: our insistence on obedience to the Constitution, with all its archaic, idiosyncratic and downright evil provisions."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/31/op...stitution.html
    He has it exactly backward.

    I say that a great deal of this nation's problems are the direct consequences of failing to uphold and obey the Constitution. Our system of government is broken because we have allowed it to deviate so far from the principles written into the Constitution, and to claim powers and authorities over us far in excess of what the Constitution was written to allow.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  8. #28
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I don't think we need to ditch the constitution but neither do I think we should be held in bondage by it and unable to change it with the times.

    I consider the constitution to be a living document. A great blueprint that requires adjustment now and then.
    The Constitution includes the process by which it can be changed, as needed. This process is, by wise design, long and difficult, to ensure that it will not be invoked frivolously.

    Those who say that the Constitution is a “living document”, are those who support policies that are unconstitutional, and know that there is not enough support for these policies to get the Constitution amended as necessary to allow them. Therefore, they simply make invalid excuses to disregard and disobey the Constitution.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  9. #29
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    …and our Constitution, instead of working for us, works just the opposite.
    No. It is not the Constitution that is failing to work for us. It is our public servants, who fail to obey the Constitution, who are working against us instead of for us.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  10. #30
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    Re: Should we get rid of the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    The Constitution includes the process by which it can be changed, as needed. This process is, by wise design, long and difficult, to ensure that it will not be invoked frivolously.

    Those who say that the Constitution is a “living document”, are those who support policies that are unconstitutional, and know that there is not enough support for these policies to get the Constitution amended as necessary to allow them. Therefore, they simply make invalid excuses to disregard and disobey the Constitution.
    Why, that's just silly.

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
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