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Would you be willing to live in an Orwellian society?

Would it be worth it to save x lives annually

  • 1,000 lives

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 10,000 lives

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 100,000 lives

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 1,000,000 lives

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • It wouldn't be worth it for any amount of lives.

    Votes: 25 100.0%

  • Unsure/Some rights are worth giving away but not all.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .
E

ex99

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
56
Reaction score
21
Location
Chicago burbs
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I see a lot of people out there willing to give away their rights for safety, security, lives, whatever it may be. I see it now with the 2nd amendment, plenty are willing to hand away our right to bear arms or to at least give away part of that right so they can pretend 20 children wouldn't have been senselessly murdered. It's happened with our rights to property, privacy, travel etc... and it will continue to happen.

So my question to you is this. Why don't we just skip all these childish steps, and just go all the way. I'm talking about living in a Orwellian society, straight out of 1984. I mean no rights, period. No privacy, no nothing.

So.... what would be worth it to you to do so? OR are you a heartless bastard who doesn't care about the lives of others and it isn't worth it period?
 
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If I wish to live in any society at all, it would be in one where people are educated to the point they would not indulge in such silly rants based upon such an overreaction.
 
ex99 said:
I see a lot of people out there willing to give away their rights for safety, security, lives, whatever it may be. I see it now with the 2nd amendment, plenty are willing to hand away our right to bear arms or to at least give away part of that right so they can pretend 20 children wouldn't have been senselessly murdered. It's happened with our rights to property, privacy, travel etc... and it will continue to happen.

So my question to you is this. Why don't we just skip all these childish steps, and just go all the way. I'm talking about living in a Orwellian society, straight out of 1984. I mean no rights, period. No privacy, no nothing.

So.... what would be worth it to you to do so? OR are you a heartless bastard who doesn't care about the lives of others and it isn't worth it period?
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I read 1984 a long time before 1984 and thought that it would never happen. Easy to be wrong. It's like an insidious creep and seems to be coming to bear. If such governing would stop Global Warming and bring the world community together in a focused manner, it might be acceptable.
 
DaveFagan said:
I read 1984 a long time before 1984 and thought that it would never happen. Easy to be wrong. It's like an insidious creep and seems to be coming to bear. If such governing would stop Global Warming and bring the world community together in a focused manner, it might be acceptable.
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You see a global evil conspiracy and embrace it if it will serve you. Are you a Sith?
 
Would you be willing to live in an Orwellian society?
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nah, dystopian societies always have death games, and i hate reality TV.
 
Helix said:
nah, dystopian societies always have death games, and i hate reality TV.
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Good stuff, gotta like it again with a quote.

'Cause you don't want crappy TV! Very nice.
 
The American Flag and ONE true Patriot make a majority - or rather, at least it seems that way these days...

To answer the question posed by the OP - It is better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees. ;)
 
Nightrider said:
The American Flag and ONE true Patriot make a majority - or rather, at least it seems that way these days...

To answer the question posed by the OP - It is better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees. ;)
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Exactly the answer I was expecting and hoping for. So what I'm curious of is why ~50% of our nation is okay with the idea of giving away some of or part of our rights. You give them anything they are only going to ask for more and more. They have violated our rights time and time again. Why does the vast majority of society seem uncaring by the past let alone what's going on right in front of our eyes?
 
"Any society that would relinquish a little liberty for a little security deserves neither and will lose both."
-Benjamin Franklin

I think that says it all.
 
ex99 said:
Exactly the answer I was expecting and hoping for. So what I'm curious of is why ~50% of our nation is okay with the idea of giving away some of or part of our rights. You give them anything they are only going to ask for more and more. They have violated our rights time and time again. Why does the vast majority of society seem uncaring by the past let alone what's going on right in front of our eyes?
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Because America has become home to self-center people with no vision of the future and no knowledge of the past. They have very short political memories. It has now become and has been for awhile now all about "me" and what I want "now". Even a lot of charity has become about image and how it makes "me" feel.

Even with the few who actually can think about longterm and the future, they embrace short sighted and easy methods instead of what is actually stable and sustainable for the longterm. Among them, it is rare to find very many that actually know or understand history.
 
I'm not willing to sacrificing the lives of many for the pulses of a few. Living in metaphorical shackles isn't living. People fight every day around the globe for a chance at a more free life...and thousands die trying to achieve it. There's no justification for suffocating the entire populace to stop .0000001% of the population from doing bad against .00001% of the population.
 
Gardener said:
If I wish to live in any society at all, it would be in one where people are educated to the point they would not indulge in such silly rants based upon such an overreaction.
Click to expand...

Thanks for jumping in with the typical troll one liner. It's a debate forum where he posed a theoretical moral question. No need to be a dick for dick's sake.
 
ex99 said:
I see a lot of people out there willing to give away their rights for safety, security, lives, whatever it may be. I see it now with the 2nd amendment, plenty are willing to hand away our right to bear arms or to at least give away part of that right so they can pretend 20 children wouldn't have been senselessly murdered. It's happened with our rights to property, privacy, travel etc... and it will continue to happen.

So my question to you is this. Why don't we just skip all these childish steps, and just go all the way. I'm talking about living in a Orwellian society, straight out of 1984. I mean no rights, period. No privacy, no nothing.

So.... what would be worth it to you to do so? OR are you a heartless bastard who doesn't care about the lives of others and it isn't worth it period?
Click to expand...

Your posting indicates that you already live in the realm of Big Brother. Pity - I used to like the old US before the gun-and-AIPAC nutters took it over.
 
ex99 said:
So my question to you is this. Why don't we just skip all these childish steps, and just go all the way. I'm talking about living in a Orwellian society, straight out of 1984. I mean no rights, period. No privacy, no nothing.
Click to expand...
"All these childish steps" are an effort to strike an appropriate balance between freedom and regulation. Your question is like me asking you why don't we go all the way and abolish democratic/republican regulation altogether? Leave everybody free to do whatever they are capable of doing in a totally free, unregulated world.

In our libertarian, republican tradition, we promote freedom because we start from an assumption that the overall community is healthiest, happiest, etc. when people are free to make their own choices. But that is not a 100% truth. For example, the freedom to kill people who annoy us does not leave the community overall healthier and happier. So that is one freedom we have decided is not worth the price.

Certain types of gun ownership may or may not be another freedom that is not worth the price. That is a worthy conversation to have. But this extremist argument that if you favor some regulation we might as well regulate everything is lazy and ignorant.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Thanks for jumping in with the typical troll one liner. It's a debate forum where he posed a theoretical moral question. No need to be a dick for dick's sake.
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and thank you for the personal attack.

If a person is so irrational and paranoid that they view a few sensible restrictions on the availability of weapons designed to kill as many people as possible as indicating we have entered some sort of Orwellian territory, they deserve nothing BUT scorn.
 
I wish to live free.

Simply put, no society is absolutely safe. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I would be willing to give my life to ensure that the free society still exists. That is the most I could ever relinquish and I would willingly if it meant that freedom would be restored.

Authoritarian/Totalitarian governments are a cancer to humanity. The only thing we should ever preserve is a free and open society which does not exist anymore.
 
Gardener said:
and thank you for the personal attack.

If a person is so irrational and paranoid that they view a few sensible restrictions on the availability of weapons designed to kill as many people as possible as indicating we have entered some sort of Orwellian territory, they deserve nothing BUT scorn.
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The OP didn't say those things constituted an Orwellian society, just that it represented a single step towards one. He then posed a philosophical question, which you quickly mocked and refused to answer. I don't know why you're here if that's your only goal.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
The OP didn't say those things constituted an Orwellian society, just that it represented a single step towards one. He then posed a philosophical question, which you quickly mocked and refused to answer. I don't know why you're here if that's your only goal.
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I have been here for over six times as long as you, so don't you worry your little head as to why I am here, only that I am here.

The patent stupidity of some of these slippery slope arguments foisted by those with extreme political opinions gets to be a bit much. There is absolutely nothing inherent in taking a few sensible steps to try to restrict the access to certain types of weapons that indicates we have taken any steps towards an Orwellian society. Such nonsense only indicates the person who thinks so is too radical to be rational. Our very society is predicated upon the restriction of certain actions by an individual in order to facilitate the functioning of the group, and although we can argue where, exactly such restrictions should be placed, to indicate that any restrictions at all are a step towards some sort of Orwellian society is idiotic.
 
ecofarm said:
You see a global evil conspiracy and embrace it if it will serve you. Are you a Sith?
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Does he speak in absolutes? For only then, will we know!
 
Considering how many lives were given for our rights, we should never betray them by giving up our rights in the hope of saving lives.

Freedom isn't safe.
 
So should I support the patriot act? Should I support the TSA? Should I red light cameras? Should I support banning one weapon that works exactly the same way as another purely becaise it looks more menacing?

I think I'll stick to supporting my rights, my freedoms. Believing in facts over propaganda and fear. I am more than willing to sacrifice my personal security for the sake of liberty.

Edit: Intended for Gardener, still not entirely used to posting and all on my phone.
 
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We're already well on our way to being Orwellian.
 
ex99 said:
Exactly the answer I was expecting and hoping for. So what I'm curious of is why ~50% of our nation is okay with the idea of giving away some of or part of our rights. You give them anything they are only going to ask for more and more. They have violated our rights time and time again. Why does the vast majority of society seem uncaring by the past let alone what's going on right in front of our eyes?
Click to expand...

Than we should let that 50% give up what they'd like. It is their's to give up after all. However, the other 50% (I'll include myself in this camp) have grown tired of having their rights stolen. Well, actually our rights haven't been stolen but more to the point our rights -- if we choose to exercise them -- have become subject to unjust consequence.

The vast majority are ignorant of the past much less uncaring. Instilled fear and hopelessness is what keeps them from acting out against the travesties they see before their very eyes. Apathy makes it a game of chance that they are even aware of them.
 
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