View Poll Results: Should we be sending F16 fighter planes to Egypt?

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Thread: Should we be sending F16 fighter planes to Egypt?

  1. #61
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    Re: Should we be sending F16 fighter planes to Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I disagree. I believe it reveals your angle and level of knowledge.
    Disagreement with your position puts me in some pretty good company.

    Do you have any further points to make, or are we to conclude that you're finished? I can see how supporting the giving away of war planes to the likes of Hosni Mubaric is difficult to argue, so, if you're unable to do so, it is totally understandable.

    Maybe next time you'll pick a subject that can actually be supported with real facts.
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  2. #62
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    Re: Should we be sending F16 fighter planes to Egypt?

    In good company (ad hom)... restate the OP question... "facts".

    Yeah, that's what I expected.

  3. #63
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    Re: Should we be sending F16 fighter planes to Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    In good company (ad hom)... restate the OP question... "facts".

    Yeah, that's what I expected.
    There is nothing "ad hom" in my post. Actually, I'm excusing your failure to support the position you've chosen, as it is an unsupportable position. Given something that could be supported, you would no doubt be more successful. As it is, you've run out of real arguments and are now grasping at straws. That's what happens when you try to argue a point that is impossible to support.
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  4. #64
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    Re: Should we be sending F16 fighter planes to Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    There is nothing "ad hom" in my post.
    Oh, please let's not get silly. Claiming that being against someone/their position puts one in "good company" is an ad hom.

  5. #65
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    Re: Should we be sending F16 fighter planes to Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Oh, please let's not get silly. Claiming that being against someone/their position puts one in "good company" is an ad hom.
    There is a difference between being "against someone" and being against their position.

    You see, had I called you a stupid head, then that would have been an ad hom. It would have been quite childish, as are most ad hom attacks. Saying I'm in good company is simply stating that I have a lot of company in my position that giving away warplanes and tanks to Hosni Mubaric, or any other dictator, is a bad idea is simply stating the facts.

    Now, you have taken the position that it was a good idea to have given away said planes and tanks to the government of Egypt. Please, if you have any more points to make on that subject, tell us why you think it was a good idea to do so.

    Oh, and criticizing the policy of the United States is not saying that the USA is bad. We citizens of this great nation have a right, no, an obligation to criticize actions of the government with which we disagree.
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    Re: Should we be sending F16 fighter planes to Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    What do you think?
    I think 1-liner OPs should earn you points.

    How about a link & quote from supporting news story? Maybe toss in some of your own original content to spur the discussion. A coloring section would be nice too.

  7. #67
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    Re: Should we be sending F16 fighter planes to Egypt?

    Well, if you are going to argue sending arms to Mubarak vs. the Muslim Brotherhood, the question shouldn't be "are they nice chaps? but "what are they likely to do with such weapons and are they trustworthy?". In the case of Mubarak, he certainly cracked down on the Muslim Brotherhood and other political enemies. The Muslim Brotherhood cracks down on pretty much everybody, especially women. There are no good guys there, even if the M.B. craps on the lives of more people.

    It's what they have done or might do with the weapons that is the issue here, and Mubarak did not use them to attack others. He honored peace agreements and his rhetoric was never such to indicate he wouldn't. THe M.B., on the other hand, is offering COPIOUS rhetoric that indicates belligerence, and so the sending of any potential arms should take this into account. That it isn't is cause for concern to me, and seems short sighted.

    Seems to me that the social dynamic of the Arab world can only produce these two potential outcomes - -a strong armed leader or an ultra-conservative religiously inclined government. They are a clannish societies based upon blood ties, not ideology, after all. We are not going to see western style democracies in countries where half the population is married to close family relatives, and so I think the sooner we acknowledge this, the better. I think our only really viable approach is to achieve absolute total energy independence so we don't HAVE to make these sorts of decisions. Egypt's strategic location complicates matters immensely, and that is what makes these decisions so difficult.
    Last edited by Gardener; 01-28-13 at 01:39 PM.
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  8. #68
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    Re: Should we be sending F16 fighter planes to Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Now, you have taken the position that it was a good idea to have given away said planes and tanks to the government of Egypt. Please, if you have any more points to make on that subject, tell us why you think it was a good idea to do so.
    That's incorrect. My position is that your position is based on a loss of context, history, critical consideration and the modern era, and constitutes nothing more than dragging old stuff about the US into a discussion of modern times - typical, senseless, US bashing based purely on a twisted view of the past and pessimistic, self serving, US (foreign policy) bashing view of the present.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    or, use them to put down that pesky uprising against a totalitarian regime.
    1. Egypt is not totalitarian.
    2. We already deposed one, what makes him think we will not do it again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    ...given the history of totalitarian regimes around the world, the priorities that include... what? supporting dictatorships? considering that things have changed in Egypt, no, USA not baaaaad, just doing stupid things as a foreign policy.
    Yeah, yeah... Obama has NO idea what he's doing. There is NO justification. Everyone without your opinion is CRAZY!!

    And USA stooopid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Not USA stoooopid, but specifically the foreign policy of the federal government.
    USA stooopid (on foreign policy). Whew, glad you clarified that!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Maybe next time you'll pick a subject that can actually be supported with real facts.
    Ahh, the "facts". Like, Egypt is totalitarian and will use the f16s against a democratic uprising?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That's what happens when you try to argue a point that is impossible to support.
    If it's so impossible to support, why does Obama support it? I guess you know more than he, and he doesn't have the "facts".

  9. #69
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    Re: Should we be sending F16 fighter planes to Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That's incorrect. My position is that your position is based on a loss of context, history, critical consideration and the modern era, and constitutes nothing more than dragging old stuff about the US into a discussion of modern times - typical, senseless, US bashing based purely on a twisted view of the past and pessimistic, self serving, US (foreign policy) bashing view of the present.


    So, your position is not that giving away warplanes and tanks to Egypt is a good idea?
    No wonder we're not communicating. All this time, I thought you were attempting to argue that it was. My position, on the other hand, is quite clear: Giving away warplanes and tanks to Egypt is not a good idea.

    So, let's see if I can begin to understand where you're coming from.

    dragging old stuff about the US into a discussion of modern times
    Just what "old stuff" are we talking about here?

    - typical, senseless, US bashing based purely on a twisted view of the past and pessimistic, self serving, US (foreign policy) bashing view of the present.
    Typical of whom?
    Is disagreement with US foreign policy "senseless US bashing"? How so?
    Twisted view of the past? I thought we were talking about a present and future. Giving away military hardware is something being done now and contemplated in the future, is it not?
    "US foreign policy bashing?" Well, of course, I, as a citizen of a free country, am criticizing US foreign policy. Do you think that is wrong?
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  10. #70
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    Re: Should we be sending F16 fighter planes to Egypt?

    If they pay for them, sure. If we're just giving them away, hell no, but we shouldn't be giving anything away to anyone, anywhere, for any reason.
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