View Poll Results: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

Voters
76. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    60 78.95%
  • No

    3 3.95%
  • I don't know

    2 2.63%
  • I don't care

    11 14.47%
Page 7 of 22 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 218

Thread: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

  1. #61
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    07-16-14 @ 01:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    47,571

    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, I present evidence #14,058 for Black Manta's case.
    What is that supposed to mean?

  2. #62
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    07-16-14 @ 01:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    47,571

    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well, because most don't, and because (again) the evidence is fairly overwhelming. The desperate effort to reach as far as necessary into outliers to create a counternarrative may relieve cognitive dissonance, but it doesn't do much for the actual people themselves. We don't help people become better parents by telling them that the decision to get/stay married / divorced is a neutral one.
    Where in the heck do you live? Divorce stats? What happens cpwill is that people jump into marriage before they actually know the person they are marrying. Once they REALLY get to know the person, they discover that they cannot possibly stand that person. You seem to live in a bubble. A make-believe phony la-la fantasy island bubble.

  3. #63
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    07-16-14 @ 01:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    47,571

    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, I present evidence #14,058 for Black Manta's case.
    Was this supposed to be some kind of insult or something?

  4. #64
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    07-16-14 @ 01:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    47,571

    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Now you know what would be interesting? Compare statistics of those who come from homes where parents didn't get along but stayed married for the "sake of the children" as opposed to those who come from homes of divorced parents. Now there's a fair and accurate comparison.

  5. #65
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,082

    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Was this supposed to be some kind of insult or something?
    No. It's just sad. That is an accurate depiction of what many people believe.

    Where in the heck do you live?
    Currently I live in Okinawa, Japan. Prior to that I was in North Carolina.

    Divorce stats? What happens cpwill is that people jump into marriage before they actually know the person they are marrying. Once they REALLY get to know the person, they discover that they cannot possibly stand that person. You seem to live in a bubble. A make-believe phony la-la fantasy island bubble.
    On the contrary. I ended up in a marriage "before I actually knew the person I was marrying". Our early years sucked. They sucked a lot; both of us spent a lot of time angry or depressed. But we'd made a commitment to each other, and we'd made a commitment to be good parents. We didn't terribly like each other for a while there, didn't frankly respect each other, and quite honestly weren't good to each other, either. We were a low-single-income family with a short relationship prior to marriage, a kid extremely early on, and multiple deployments - all the stats that you hear about how poor conditions cause divorce? We had 'em. That's why the vast majority of my peers have gotten divorced - they had them too. In a bubble? Divorce stats? Have you seen the divorce stats for Marine Corps Infantry? It's a standing joke - when you reach Staff NCO you get issued a divorce and a giant pickup truck. We had one work-up / deployment I think we lost about a third to a half of our marriages in just that one tour. My wifes' mother was a single mom, her sister is a single mom, my cousins were all raised by single moms, I couldn't begin to tell you the number of friends I've had that have lost their marriages / had issues with adultery / had kids out of wedlock. I've seen plenty of the human wreckage of failed or failing marriages. But my wife and I had made a commitment to each other, and we'd made a commitment to be good parents. And so we did.

    Turned out, Black Manta is right - relationships require work. Being a good parent is work. These things require sacrifice, they require you to be an adult, suck it up, and sometimes not do what is fun, not do what feels good, not take the easy way out that is the quick path to a life less richly lived. Life ain't perfect and our relationship never will be. Neither will my relationship with my boys - I argue with the oldest son all the time. I can't think of a single instance where I've thought "My goodness. My son and I argue all the time. Maybe I should put him up for adoption so that we can both be happier." But people have been taught to think this way of their spouses, and that tragic shift to focus on the self has left the self worse off. The split / separated / divorced are more lonely, depressed, and have more difficult lives than those who get and stay married. They are less healthy. They have shorter lives. Their children face greater difficulties in life, and succeed at lower rates.

    Happiness - real happiness - isn't a goal. It's a by-product of doing the right thing. But the boomers thought they could make it their goal (and they have taught their kids the same) and like trying to seize mercury, when you do that, it just squeezes out of your grasp.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-26-13 at 08:52 AM.

  6. #66
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    07-16-14 @ 01:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    47,571

    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No. It's just sad. That is an accurate depiction of what many people believe.



    Currently I live in Okinawa, Japan. Prior to that I was in North Carolina.



    On the contrary. I ended up in a marriage "before I actually knew the person I was marrying". Our early years sucked. They sucked a lot; both of us spent a lot of time angry or depressed. But we'd made a commitment to each other, and we'd made a commitment to be good parents. We were a low-single-income family with a short relationship prior to marriage, a kid extremely early on, and multiple deployments - all the stats that you hear about how poor conditions cause divorce? We had 'em. We didn't terribly like each other for a while there, didn't frankly respect each other, and quite honestly weren't good to each other, either. But we'd made a commitment to each other, and we'd made a commitment to be good parents. And so we did.

    Turned out, Black Manta is right - relationships require work. Being a good parent is work. These things require sacrifice, they require you to be an adult, suck it up, and sometimes not do what is fun, not do what feels good, not take the easy way out that is the quick path to a life less richly lived. Life ain't perfect and our relationship never will be. Neither will my relationship with my boys - I argue with the oldest son all the time. I can't think of a single instance where I've thought "My goodness. My son and I argue all the time. Maybe I should put him up for adoption so that we can both be happier." But people have been taught to think this way of their spouses, and that tragic shift to focus on the self has left the self worse off. The split / separated / divorced are more lonely, depressed, and have more difficult lives than those who get and stay married. They are less healthy. They have shorter lives. Their children face greater difficulties in life, and succeed at lower rates.

    Happiness - real happiness - isn't a goal. It's a by-product of doing the right thing. But the boomers thought they could make it their goal (and they have taught their kids the same) and like trying to seize mercury, when you do that, it just squeezes out of your grasp.
    Obviously, you and your wife did NOT have very serious issues. Good for your for being able to work through your problems. Not all relationships or probably even most cannot.

    You fail to take into account SO MANY other factors too. It's just plain annoying.

  7. #67
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    07-16-14 @ 01:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    47,571

    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    And how long have you been married for, and how old are you cpwill? You still have a LONG way to go friend.

  8. #68
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,082

    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Obviously, you and your wife did NOT have very serious issues.
    Obviously you have no idea what issues we did or did not have, as obviously only we are the ones fully aware. However, I'll tell you that you are indeed quite wrong and leave it at that.

    Good for your for being able to work through your problems. Not all relationships or probably even most cannot.
    On the contrary - the divorce rates we see today are a relatively modern phenomenon.

    You fail to take into account SO MANY other factors too.
    Not at all. I simply refuse to discount will.

  9. #69
    Professor
    Mathematician's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Last Seen
    09-22-17 @ 09:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    2,147

    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Yes they should. Of course the law makes it so easy to divorce now it's almost ridicules to get married. When my wife and I got married we made an agreement that divorce for other than adultery (and even then maybe) was out of the question. We have had to work very hard at our marriage. I think this is part of the problem. People seem to think you fall in love get married and live happily ever after. What a load of poop.

    Marriage and child rearing are hard work. It is something you have to be willing to work at. Something you are willing to give concessions and also cooperate with. Children make it even harder.

    It is sad people today get married for the wrong reasons and have no clue what they are getting into.

    This is all anecdotal on my part, but I have been married a long time and have grandchildren. I am still happily married and my kids are doing great. I had to have done something right.
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Head of Nail, meet Hammer. Instant-Gratification, If It Feels Good Do It, and The Purpose Of Life Is To Seek Self-Expression. People today think that when the puppy love fades "well, it just didn't work out"; or when they fight "well, the only answer to us fighting is to throw up our hands and quit". Utter bunk. My wife and I made the same oath ya'll did, and while it has sucked at times, you are right - the reward is so far and away more than worth it that you wonder at those who even stop to try to count the cost.
    I think a better solution is knowing what your expectations of a SO are and being as confident as possible that the person you're with meets those. When I was in my 20's and was very selective about who I dated, my friends, and even I, questioned whether my expectations were too high. I wanted a lady who was attractive, ambitious enough to pursue graduate education, no divorce or kids, and shared my belief in the value of traditional gender roles (especially in a relationship). Just like how they say you find your partner when you're not looking, I met my wife when I was in London to give a lecture. Low and behold, she was also there as a visiting instructor from another country. Keeping in touch regularly, after the academic year was over, I flew her to be with me for a couple months. Surprisingly, that was enough time living together to realize we were soulmates, mostly because we were in our 30's and mature enough to really pay attention to much more about our connection than the physical attraction. I believe the divorce rate is so high more because of people not really setting the right expectations of their partner, or even themselves, in fulfilling a role in a relationship and mutally confirming they match.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

  10. #70
    Relentless Thinking Fury
    ChezC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,124

    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    A healthy and stable enviroment between two mutually exclusive opposite sex individuals is the greatest chance that their offspring will have at being successful and productive adults.

Page 7 of 22 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •