View Poll Results: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

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  • Yes

    60 78.95%
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Thread: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

  1. #111
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    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    A priest will NOT refuse baptism for merely being conceived out of wedlock. A priest will refuse baptism if he has valid reason to believe that the child will not be raised as a Catholic. The fact that your parents then went to a Protestant church for the baptism indicates to me that the priests refusal was well founded.
    This is really bothersome to me. IMO, this goes AGAINST the teachings of Jesus Christ. What kind of religion would make the innocent child pay for the sins of the parents?

  2. #112
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    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    This is really bothersome to me. IMO, this goes AGAINST the teachings of Jesus Christ. What kind of religion would make the innocent child pay for the sins of the parents?
    What kind of religion would say that an unbaptized child cannot go to heaven? (Until just most recently....2005, I believe.) What kind of religion has pamphlets in its pews welcoming visitors and letting them know they aren't welcome to take communion? What kind of religion has priests who would refused my 85-year-old protestant mother communion at a funeral service? What kind of religion takes donations into account when considering annulments? Don't get me started.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  3. #113
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    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    While on it's face, that sounds reasonable, the relationship changes after a child is born.
    I'd rather folks be married before they have children, so they don't jump to separate, during that stressful period.

    Not to mention all the dishonest tactics people use, while in relationships like that, where the tax payer ends up footing a lot of the bills.
    That's also true, although my statement was directed at the opposite situation. Even people who are married may not be ready to have children.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  4. #114
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    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Oh, that's a good reason for denying an innocent baby the chance to be cleansed of original sin. What a bunch of effing hypocrites!
    What of the parents responsibility for the child? Should the church go around baptizing children against the will of the parents for fear that the children will die with original sin? If the parents give a damn about original sin then they should make the preparations necessary to genuinely raise the child in the faith for which they request baptism. Clearly your parents didn't really care about raising you Catholic. Your anger is misplaced.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

  5. #115
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    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    What kind of religion would say that an unbaptized child cannot go to heaven?
    In general, we may state that the Church claims no authority over unbaptized persons, as they are entirely without her pale. She makes laws concerning them only in so far as they hold relations with the subjects of the Church.

    CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Baptism

    What kind of religion has pamphlets in its pews welcoming visitors and letting them know they aren't welcome to take communion? What kind of religion has priests who would refused my 85-year-old protestant mother communion at a funeral service?
    Churches that take their sacraments seriously. It's not fair to expect any organization to ignore its own rules to make others feel good.

    What kind of religion takes donations into account when considering annulments?
    I'm willing to bet there's a bit more to the story here. My sister got an annulment and donations were not taken in to account.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

  6. #116
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    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    What of the parents responsibility for the child? Should the church go around baptizing children against the will of the parents for fear that the children will die with original sin? If the parents give a damn about original sin then they should make the preparations necessary to genuinely raise the child in the faith for which they request baptism. Clearly your parents didn't really care about raising you Catholic. Your anger is misplaced.
    It is THOSE children that the Catholic church should take the most interest in. Yes, if parents bring a child in to be baptized, they should baptize them WITHOUT prejudice! It is NOT their place to make judgments. Is it? IF they truly cared, they would willingly baptize any and every child that they could.

    YOU are just making excuses for an AWFUL practice of denying the innocent the chance to be cleansed of original sin.

  7. #117
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    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    What kind of religion would say that an unbaptized child cannot go to heaven? (Until just most recently....2005, I believe.) What kind of religion has pamphlets in its pews welcoming visitors and letting them know they aren't welcome to take communion? What kind of religion has priests who would refused my 85-year-old protestant mother communion at a funeral service? What kind of religion takes donations into account when considering annulments? Don't get me started.
    Yes, I accidentally ate the bread wafer at a Catholic mass one time, and people were mortified. I was like 8 years old and didn't even know any better. I was probably just hungry.

  8. #118
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    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Mark 10:14

    But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God.

  9. #119
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    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    Churches that take their sacraments seriously. It's not fair to expect any organization to ignore its own rules to make others feel good.
    No. Those "rules?" Ridiculous. They aren't God's rules. They're the rules of some guy who wears a funny hat. Christ himself invites me to his communion table. Not the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is exclusionary. How is religion served by exclusivity? This is as far from Christ's teachings as can be.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  10. #120
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    Re: Should people wait until marriage to have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No. Those "rules?" Ridiculous. They aren't God's rules. They're the rules of some guy who wears a funny hat. Christ himself invites me to his communion table. Not the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is exclusionary. How is religion served by exclusivity? This is as far from Christ's teachings as can be.
    I've always been a free spirit..but I find the relationship changes when you get married..

    It seems like an ''I own you'' scenario!!

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