Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?[W:57]

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

MSgt said:

It is inclusive of all people in uniform. Most of the individuals who die in combat related incidences are men, but women are among them today. When politicians send other people's kids and other kids fathers to war, they are condemning many of them to death; something most of them vaguely understand. In today's warfare, this means every woman on a supply convoy and any woman on a helo crew, not just the infantry in the "front lines" where combat is imminent. When a rocket lands inside a base and kills people, women can and have been among them. Since most of the dead are men are we to pretend that women are absent so to keep massaging that fragile and frail male ego?

We are numbers on a spreadsheet. Nothing more. Percentage doesn't matter unless we wish to pound our manly chests and scoff at women for existing. Ever since "Eve ate the apple" the male ego in all cultures have designed ways to raise himself above women. Today, they can't even be counted amongst the men in combat related deaths because it somehow insults the men.

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As a marine, I would think you would understand exactly what I am saying. You know that convoy duty and supply duty do not come in contact with the enemy as much as someone searching out the enemy. Which is why women are a VERY small number of deaths on the battlefield.

You know that the majority of women that do join the Military flock to the Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard, not the Army or Marines.

What I want to see is 50% of those on the front lines being women, or at least close to that number.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

OscarB63 said:

sorry again brother, but i have been in several IED strikes and a couple of fire fights with female MPs and they held up just as well as the guys.

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Like a Police Officer I have no problem with women as MPs....What I am talking about is living in the field in a foxhole for extended periods of time. Hygiene being the least of the problems.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Joan of Arc was captured by being betrayed.
It was the English who wanted her executed - and the actual charge against her was not witchcraft, but the crime of dressing like a man. For that they burned her at the stake.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

joko104 said:

Joan of Arc was captured by being betrayed.
It was the English who wanted her executed - and the actual charge against her was not witchcraft, but the crime of dressing like a man. For that they burned her at the stake.

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And your point is?

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Your arguments are as reality based?

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Capster78 said:

As a marine, I would think you would understand exactly what I am saying. You know that convoy duty and supply duty do not come in contact with the enemy as much as someone searching out the enemy. Which is why women are a VERY small number of deaths on the battlefield.

You know that the majority of women that do join the Military flock to the Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard, not the Army or Marines.

What I want to see is 50% of those on the front lines being women, or at least close to that number.

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You are being unrealistic unless you are advocating going from all volunteer military to a forced all persons serve at least 2 years military. At best women make up, what, 25%-30% of the military? If someone has a number of this I would appreciate it. All I came up with on the fly was they fill 91% of the types of jobs or other such figures. Nothing straight out. So at best you can realistically call for that same percentage on the battlefield.

What I want to see is standards on what it takes to be on the battlefield and only those who can meet or exceed those standards get to go. If you can't meet them, man or woman, you're not on the battlefield. Period. No lower standards for anyone. Period.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

maquiscat said:

You are being unrealistic unless you are advocating going from all volunteer military to a forced all persons serve at least 2 years military. At best women make up, what, 25%-30% of the military? If someone has a number of this I would appreciate it. All I came up with on the fly was they fill 91% of the types of jobs or other such figures. Nothing straight out. So at best you can realistically call for that same percentage on the battlefield.

What I want to see is standards on what it takes to be on the battlefield and only those who can meet or exceed those standards get to go. If you can't meet them, man or woman, you're not on the battlefield. Period. No lower standards for anyone. Period.

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I've seen different numbers, never as high as 30% sometimes 20%. Statistic brain puts it at 14.6% (for women in active duty) and say they get their numbers from the Department of defense and veterans affairs but I'm not familiar with them so I don't know and that was as of April 2012.

Women in the Military Statistics | Statistic Brain

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Navy Pride said:

Like a Police Officer I have no problem with women as MPs....What I am talking about is living in the field in a foxhole for extended periods of time. Hygiene being the least of the problems.

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in today's army (don't know about the marines) even the infantry pukes don't spend extended periods living in foxholes. they operate out of FOBs/COBs that have basic life support facilities.

your objections may have been valid 15-20 years ago...but wars are fought in a totally different manner these days.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

OscarB63 said:

in today's army (don't know about the marines) even the infantry pukes don't spend extended periods living in foxholes. they operate out of FOBs/COBs that have basic life support facilities.

your objections may have been valid 15-20 years ago...but wars are fought in a totally different manner these days.

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So your saying in todays army troops don't stay in the field any longer?

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Navy Pride said:

So your saying in todays army troops don't stay in the field any longer?

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moving the goal posts are we? you said "extended periods of time". Sure we stay in the field, but it is typically never for longer than a week or two. like i said, in Iraq, the Infantry units stayed on the FOB/COB and ran missions from there and returned when the mission was done. the longest i ever saw a unit gone during any of my deployments was 4-5 days..and most of those guys weren't living in foxholes, they were simply bunked down at another FOB/COB.

the days of humping a ruck through the jungle or chasing the NAZIs through the black forrest are long gone.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

OscarB63 said:

moving the goal posts are we? you said "extended periods of time". Sure we stay in the field, but it is typically never for longer than a week or two. like i said, in Iraq, the Infantry units stayed on the FOB/COB and ran missions from there and returned when the mission was done. the longest i ever saw a unit gone during any of my deployments was 4-5 days..and most of those guys weren't living in foxholes, they were simply bunked down at another FOB/COB.

the days of humping a ruck through the jungle or chasing the NAZIs through the black forrest are long gone.

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And if we had another Vietnam conflict?

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Navy Pride said:

And if we had another Vietnam conflict?

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sorry, but after seeing them in action, i still have no issues with females serving in combat roles as long as they can meet the same physical standards as the males.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viktyr Gehrig said:

Funny, I've known a lot of people who wanted to serve specifically in combat-- including several who enjoyed the privilege.

Some women want to serve in the combat arms and specifically in combat. I don't hold with putting women in harm's way, but it does them a terrible disservice to claim they're anything less than genuine in their desire.

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Any guess as to the number one choice of branch for officers coming out of OCS?

Infantry - the vast majority of brand new Army 2LTs want to be infantry officers. so much so that only the best and brightest, top of their class, get to be infantry. everyone else usually gets stuck with their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th choice.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

OscarB63 said:

sorry, but after seeing them in action, i still have no issues with females serving in combat roles as long as they can meet the same physical standards as the males.

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That is just it my friend (and I thank you for your service) only a few women ccan meet the male standards.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Navy Pride said:

That is just it my friend (and I thank you for your service) only a few women ccan meet the male standards.

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So then what is your beef if they can meet the standards and are willing to serve in combat? It's not like the goal is to put all women in combat situations.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

maquiscat said:

So then what is your beef if they can meet the standards and are willing to serve in combat? It's not like the goal is to put all women in combat situations.

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My beef is men don't get a choice......They have to meet the physical standards in boot cam.....Women have a much easier physical standard to meet.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

maquiscat said:

You are being unrealistic unless you are advocating going from all volunteer military to a forced all persons serve at least 2 years military. At best women make up, what, 25%-30% of the military? If someone has a number of this I would appreciate it. All I came up with on the fly was they fill 91% of the types of jobs or other such figures. Nothing straight out. So at best you can realistically call for that same percentage on the battlefield.

What I want to see is standards on what it takes to be on the battlefield and only those who can meet or exceed those standards get to go. If you can't meet them, man or woman, you're not on the battlefield. Period. No lower standards for anyone. Period.

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No, I can call for whatever I want. Weather I get it or not is another thing. However, I believe it will always be mostly men because, as I have mentioned before, women don't want equality, they want entitlement. 50% of the frosting without having to sacrifice for it like many men do who are called up to go overseas and die. When women pull their weight and become 50% of that, then I will take them seriously when they say they want equality. So far, all I can see is them saying they want 50% of the candy but 5% of the bullets, RPG's, Mortars and IED injuries and deaths. You can't ask for 50% of all that is good without people asking you to do 50% of the work to earn it.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Capster78 said:

As a marine, ...

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"Marine" is capitalized because it is specialized and is a proper noun. Even the NY Times knows this. ------> When Every Letter Counts - NYTimes.com "Army" is also capitalized, however, "soldier" is not because it is generic and it is not a proper noun.

Capster78 said:

...I would think you would understand exactly what I am saying. You know that convoy duty and supply duty do not come in contact with the enemy as much as someone searching out the enemy. Which is why women are a VERY small number of deaths on the battlefield.

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True. But dead just the same.

Capster78 said:

You know that the majority of women that do join the Military flock to the Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard, not the Army or Marines.

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True. Women do not generally look for that kind of military experience that men do. But most of the other branches are men as well.

Capster78 said:

What I want to see is 50% of those on the front lines being women, or at least close to that number.

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Never going to happen. Unless near 100,000 women can pass the physical fitness tests that men have to take, there will not be a Marine infantry with 50% women and there's no point in the discussion. You may as well demand that half the NFL players be women. It would change the game dramatically, wouldn't it? How many women do you think you are going to find that would line up and get their asses kicked up and down a field? What owner would guarantee his team zero wins? Muscle, aggression, and power mean everything to an NFL Team. Do you really expect the Marines to want less from their infantry? When on the hike, pick up vehicles are full of women that have fallen out because they cannot handle the weight of a pack at a fast pace for 5, 10, 15, 26 miles. Men fall out too. It is tough. But the percentage of women is staggering. They simply can't do it.

The military is not a game. It is not a civilian work place where fairness must prevail in all areas. You want fairness, run for office. Even the undiagnosed mentally impaired person can work in Washington. Just turn on CSPAN or do a roll call of Democrats and Republicans. The Marines turn away fat, weakness, and the stupid (despite the stereotype that more fits the Army's standards). Those that are taken get beaten into shape until they prove that they are determined to fail and then they get kicked out the gate. Do you actually think the Marine Corps (or the Army) is going to staff its infantry with 50% women just for the sake of fairness?

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

joko104 said:

Joan of Arc was captured by being betrayed.
It was the English who wanted her executed - and the actual charge against her was not witchcraft, but the crime of dressing like a man. For that they burned her at the stake.

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Was it Moses of the Arc? That bastard. All he cared about was his animals. Unless he brought two wives on board as well and could spare one. Hmmmmm.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Navy Pride said:

That is just it my friend (and I thank you for your service) only a few women ccan meet the male standards.

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so what's the problem with letting those few serve? Just as not every male can meet the standards to be a ranger, not all females can meet the standards to be a combat trooper

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

MSgt said:

however, "soldier" is not because it is generic and it is not a proper noun.

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protocol these days says that "Soldier" is capitalized, at least for Army writing.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Capster78 said:

No, I can call for whatever I want. Weather I get it or not is another thing. However, I believe it will always be mostly men because, as I have mentioned before, women don't want equality, they want entitlement. 50% of the frosting without having to sacrifice for it like many men do who are called up to go overseas and die. When women pull their weight and become 50% of that, then I will take them seriously when they say they want equality. So far, all I can see is them saying they want 50% of the candy but 5% of the bullets, RPG's, Mortars and IED injuries and deaths. You can't ask for 50% of all that is good without people asking you to do 50% of the work to earn it.

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It sounds more that your problem is with women.

As for equality, nothing is absolute. You will hear the word equality, but the courts will still favor a mother over a father and will still gut a man's paycheck to support her through life. Sure a women can drive a truck. Can pilot a plane. Can lead a nation. Can run a marathon. But the unspoken truth is that we are unequal. Again, I refer you to the NFL or any sport where gender is segregated. When's the last time you saw an Olympic track and field meet where the men and women raced each other? This truth about physical inequality is more than accepted. It is celebrated in our sports for the sake of sportsmanship. Would you care to see a Football game where one side was all women? Guess who would win. How would you like to see the Marines go head to head against an army of women? Unless you wish to see a slaughter, its impractical. There is a weaker sex, whether feminists admit it or not.

But let's not voice for the weakening of our infantry just because you have an ax to grind against women. Until our society places women in the NBA, NFL, MLB or NHL....what do you think people want for their infantry - Equality or strength?

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

MSgt said:

It sounds more that your problem is with women.

As for equality, nothing is absolute. You will hear the word equality, but the courts will still favor a mother over a father and will still gut a man's paycheck to support her through life. Sure a women can drive a truck. Can pilot a plane. Can lead a nation. Can run a marathon. But the unspoken truth is that we are unequal. Again, I refer you to the NFL or any sport where gender is segregated. When's the last time you saw an Olympic track and field meet where the men and women raced each other? This truth about physical inequality is more than accepted. It is celebrated in our sports for the sake of sportsmanship. Would you care to see a Football game where one side was all women? Guess who would win. How would you like to see the Marines go head to head against an army of women? Unless you wish to see a slaughter, its impractical. There is a weaker sex, whether feminists admit it or not.

But let's not voice for the weakening of our infantry just because you have an ax to grind against women. Until our society places women in the NBA, NFL, MLB or NHL....what do you think people want for their infantry - Equality or strength?

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I agree with you completely. But as long as women are on this equality trip and demand 50%, I think they should GET 50%. Especially when they are backed by law to be entitled to 50%.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

MSgt said:

"Marine" is capitalized because it is specialized and is a proper noun. Even the NY Times knows this. ------> When Every Letter Counts - NYTimes.com "Army" is also capitalized, however, "soldier" is not because it is generic and it is not a proper noun.



True. But dead just the same.



True. Women do not generally look for that kind of military experience that men do. But most of the other branches are men as well.



Never going to happen. Unless near 100,000 women can pass the physical fitness tests that men have to take, there will not be a Marine infantry with 50% women and there's no point in the discussion. You may as well demand that half the NFL players be women. It would change the game dramatically, wouldn't it? How many women do you think you are going to find that would line up and get their asses kicked up and down a field? What owner would guarantee his team zero wins? Muscle, aggression, and power mean everything to an NFL Team. Do you really expect the Marines to want less from their infantry? When on the hike, pick up vehicles are full of women that have fallen out because they cannot handle the weight of a pack at a fast pace for 5, 10, 15, 26 miles. Men fall out too. It is tough. But the percentage of women is staggering. They simply can't do it.

The military is not a game. It is not a civilian work place where fairness must prevail in all areas. You want fairness, run for office. Even the undiagnosed mentally impaired person can work in Washington. Just turn on CSPAN or do a roll call of Democrats and Republicans. The Marines turn away fat, weakness, and the stupid (despite the stereotype that more fits the Army's standards). Those that are taken get beaten into shape until they prove that they are determined to fail and then they get kicked out the gate. Do you actually think the Marine Corps (or the Army) is going to staff its infantry with 50% women just for the sake of fairness?

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Then women need to get off their equality trip and stop demanding things just because they have a vagina.

Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Be careful what you wish for my female friendss who want no part of the military.

Panetta: Women May Be Included in Future Draft | Military.com


Females may be included in the Selective Service and qualify for a potential draft should one be ordered by the president, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said.