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Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?[W:57]

Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

  • Total voters
    87
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
I don't believe the women who are interested in participating, would appreciate that insult to their ability. I don't believe they would go into battle to endanger national security, it directly conflicts with the whole point of military service.
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I'm not insulting any female soldier's ability. I'm insulting your thought that we should "dumb down" things so all women can participate.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Somerville said:
Rather obvious that nobody posting in this thread reads the NYTimes.


Does the following story answer your question?





What do you think? Are there women already showing they can do what is needed for a combat infantry position?
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It's obvious somebody isn't keeping up with my posts. I already said that if a woman CAN pass the physical tests, as the men have to, then I see no reason why she can't serve. However, I don't think she should be allowed any kind of handicaps. Is that unreasonable?
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Josie said:
I'm not insulting any female soldier's ability. I'm insulting your thought that we should "dumb down" things so all women can participate.
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Why don't you quote me. I just don't recall thinking that.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

ChrisL said:
It's obvious somebody isn't keeping up with my posts. I already said that if a woman CAN pass the physical tests, as the men have to, then I see no reason why she can't serve. However, I don't think she should be allowed any kind of handicaps. Is that unreasonable?
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A kit she can't possibly carry is a bit of a handicap, pet.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
It is weighted to suit male soldiers.



:)...you are absolutely insisting that women soldiers are given exactly that. A handicap. Women are to be handicapped out of combat and for some of the people posting it seems to all focus on something as simple as more appropriate kit.



It appears you are wrong, as women may soon take part in combat.

I don't believe the women who are interested in participating, would appreciate that insult to their ability. I don't believe they would go into battle to endanger national security, it directly conflicts with the whole point of military service.
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Nope, in order for a woman to be TRULY equal, she should be able to pass the physical fitness tests, as the men have to. If she can't do it, then she is physically incapable.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
A kit she can't possibly carry is a bit of a handicap, pet.
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Then she isn't qualified.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
Why don't you quote me. I just don't recall thinking that.
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Okay....

Viv said:
Do you seriously think it is beyond the might of the military to produce a kit more suitable for female soldiers, when there are people producing invisible tanks?
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Viv said:
You're entitled to your opinion. If women want to get involved in combat, it is (or should be) their right. I don't know how US law stands, but a case can surely be made for discrimination against an employer who makes equality of opportunity in the workplace impossible and takes no steps to reduce that inequality.

They will be forced to reduce the weight if women want to join that arena.
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You want the US military to change things so that all women who want to can participate in combat. That's "dumbing down" the standards. Why can't the standards stay where they are?
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
A kit she can't possibly carry is a bit of a handicap, pet.
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If you cannot keep up with the boys, then you can't be part of team. And, no, that's not being sexist. This is our national security we're talking about here.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

MarineTpartier said:
Assassins? lol We're talking grunts here dude. Not some kind of Syphon Filter Metal Gear Solid crap.
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Trouble is here..it is full of testorone b*ll crap...

They really have no idea..
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Another issue I wanted to bring up with this situation. Once again, as with the repeal of DADT, the SecDef did not wait on the results of a survey that every service put out regarding women in combat MOS's. The results are usually published via mass email to every Marine with a .mil email address. I have yet to see them. If the SecDef and Joint Chiefs are going to make the decision anyway, then just friggin make it. Don't patronize us. Don't act like our opinion matters, because it obviously doesn't. I'm all about following orders. I'm ok with a senior officer just telling me "Women are serving combat and that's all there is to it." Fine. But what they do everytime one of these issues comes up is put out these surveys because they "care" what we think. Bogus. 58% of combat MOS Marines stated that they were against the repeal of DADT. I didn't agree withe DADT but apparently a lot of the guys around me did. And senior officers wonder why Marines don't participate in these surveys lol. Why should we? It's a waste of time. It's the equivalent of my commanding officer saying "Hey, do you think we should execute this operation?" when he has already made the decision. The military isn't a democracy. Stop treating it like one. If a douche bag civilian (Panetta) wants to make a stupid decision with the support of politicians in uniform (Joint Chiefs) then so be it. But don't ask me what I think about it when you already made the call.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

ChrisL said:
Nope, in order for a woman to be TRULY equal, she should be able to pass the physical fitness tests, as the men have to. If she can't do it, then she is physically incapable.
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Test women to female physical fitness levels and equip them appropriately. Remove the sexist handicap.

The physical fitness tests are set up for male abilities. I wonder how males were built a century ago...things change. People are taller and stronger than they used to be and physical ability may have a sliding scale according to need. However...

Women are not male. That is a fact. Therefore it is discriminatory (and pointless) to test them on the same basis as males. The majority will be physically unable to do what males do. However, if they can still do much what males do on the field of battle, they can serve. This is reality. It's utter nonsense to expect women to be as physically strong as men and it's more nonsense to exclude them from combat for that reason alone.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
They will be forced to reduce the weight if women want to join that arena.
.
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Ah, so it will just magically "happen" because... um... because... um... because it has to! :doh


So what will they carry less of?

Ammo? Not a good idea. Going empty in a firefight is just not a good thing...

Food, water? So we'll either have to shorten missions or someone else will have to carry their share? That'll be great for morale and operations...

Body armor? That's a big one... but then a lot more women would get killed in combat for lack of armor...

CBN/MOPP gear? Well if you don't want protection available if someone cuts loose with VX, Sarin or etc...

Basic survival gear? What will you do without in the field? They already don't exactly have many "luxuries" to speak of.

So where are these magical reductions going to take place, and who will take up the slack?


I come back to what I said originally: I have no problem with women in combat units, as long as they are capable of performing to that unit's required standards without lowering those standards.

Anyone, man or woman, who cannot meet those standards cannot join that unit.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

This is not a game. This is serious stuff. If you can't carry your own weight and perhaps even the weight of another, then you are not only putting yourself at risk, but every other person in your unit. I don't see why people can't understand that.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

wolfie said:
Trouble is here..it is full of testorone b*ll crap...

They really have no idea..
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What?
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
Test women to female physical fitness levels and equip them appropriately. Remove the sexist handicap.
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Wait a minute. I want easier tests and lighter gear too. Why should I not get what they get?
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
Test women to female physical fitness levels and equip them appropriately. Remove the sexist handicap.

The physical fitness tests are set up for male abilities. I wonder how males were built a century ago...things change. People are taller and stronger than they used to be and physical ability may have a sliding scale according to need. However...

Women are not male. That is a fact. Therefore it is discriminatory (and pointless) to test them on the same basis as males. The majority will be physically unable to do what males do. However, if they can still do much what males do on the field of battle, they can serve. This is reality. It's utter nonsense to expect women to be as physically strong as men and it's more nonsense to exclude them from combat for that reason alone.
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The problem here is you're more concerned about women's lib than national security.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
Test women to female physical fitness levels and equip them appropriately. Remove the sexist handicap.

The physical fitness tests are set up for male abilities. I wonder how males were built a century ago...things change. People are taller and stronger than they used to be and physical ability may have a sliding scale according to need. However...

Women are not male. That is a fact. Therefore it is discriminatory (and pointless) to test them on the same basis as males. The majority will be physically unable to do what males do. However, if they can still do much what males do on the field of battle, they can serve. This is reality. It's utter nonsense to expect women to be as physically strong as men and it's more nonsense to exclude them from combat for that reason alone.
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It would be helpful for you to repeat that phrase to yourself . . . over and over.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

ChrisL said:
This is not a game. This is serious stuff. If you can't carry your own weight and perhaps even the weight of another, then you are not only putting yourself at risk, but every other person in your unit. I don't see why people can't understand that.
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You're right, it isn't a game. It's social experimentation with the only demographic of people in the country that best represent the melting pot that is the US population yet lack the authority to quit or get away from said experimentation when they become uncomfortable with or disapprove of it.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

ChrisL said:
This is not a game. This is serious stuff. If you can't carry your own weight and perhaps even the weight of another, then you are not only putting yourself at risk, but every other person in your unit. I don't see why people can't understand that.
Click to expand...


Viv doesn't get it because, to Viv, asking a woman to carry the same gear that any other grunt carries is "sexist"... and apparently she doesn't care that a lighter load for women soldiers would mean a SERIOUS HANDICAP in combat, like less ammo, or less food and water, or someone else having to carry her slack.

She doesn't want to get it because to her it is about alleged sexism, rather than combat readiness.


Which is ridiculous beyond all explanation, because MEN who cannot meet the physical requirements for specific combat units can't be in those units either!
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
Test women to female physical fitness levels and equip them appropriately. Remove the sexist handicap.

The physical fitness tests are set up for male abilities. I wonder how males were built a century ago...things change. People are taller and stronger than they used to be and physical ability may have a sliding scale according to need. However...

Women are not male. That is a fact. Therefore it is discriminatory (and pointless) to test them on the same basis as males. The majority will be physically unable to do what males do. However, if they can still do much what males do on the field of battle, they can serve. This is reality. It's utter nonsense to expect women to be as physically strong as men and it's more nonsense to exclude them from combat for that reason alone.
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This isn't equality though. I feel discriminated against. I want to be able to get 100 points on my PFT for 8 pull ups like the chicks do.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

I thought feminists were about LESS violence for women? Now they want them to go into combat under-trained and unprepared?
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

MarineTpartier said:
You're right, it isn't a game. It's social experimentation with the only demographic of people in the country that best represent the melting pot that is the US population yet lack the authority to quit or get away from said experimentation when they become uncomfortable with or disapprove of it.
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Uncomfortable with? Not sure I'm understanding you.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Goshin said:
Viv doesn't get it because, to Viv, asking a woman to carry the same gear that any other grunt carries is "sexist"... and apparently she doesn't care that a lighter load for women soldiers would mean a SERIOUS HANDICAP in combat, like less ammo, or less food and water, or someone else having to carry her slack.

She doesn't want to get it because to her it is about alleged sexism, rather than combat readiness.


Which is ridiculous beyond all explanation, because MEN who cannot meet the physical requirements for specific combat units can't be in those units either!
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She seems to think war is some kind of PC game.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?[W:

ChrisL said:
Nope, in order for a woman to be TRULY equal, she should be able to pass the physical fitness tests, as the men have to. If she can't do it, then she is physically incapable.
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She is totally capable to the level of fitness her gender provides.

ChrisL said:
Then she isn't qualified.
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...as a man. So what?

Josie said:
Okay....

You want the US military to change things so that all women who want to can participate in combat. That's "dumbing down" the standards. Why can't the standards stay where they are?
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Male standards.

Do you know we're talking about women?

It is dumb to be unrealistic and refuse to accept facts. These people want to serve and they are able to serve with some adjustments in line with gender. Gender can't be changed. The weight of your kit can.

Josie said:
If you cannot keep up with the boys, then you can't be part of team. And, no, that's not being sexist. This is our national security we're talking about here.
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Women can keep up with the boys.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?[W:

Viv said:
Women can keep up with the boys.
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Then why do you keep saying you want different standards for women?
 
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